Exchange Depth Essences 1.1, or raise the drop rate of Depth Essences.

EvilLumi

I have farmed Depths 1 about 10 hours, and the result is very poor. The amount we need to upgrade this gear is asking for literally hundreds of hours if we are to farm it ourselves. Granted, these are end game, and yes, It shouldn't be -easy-, but it also shouldn't feel this dull. I can only farm this area once a day because it's just extremely demanding to upkeep, so the length it's taking feels like a month already, and after creating my robe, and just wanting to BEGIN to enchant, I realize the lack of essences I have is extraordinary.

The drop rate is whatever to me, it's just a sub suggestion, but giving us the ability to trade in our off-focus essences would help this grind feel much less imposing. After 10 hours, I was only able to get my enchants to level 1, and this is including all of the biosphere farming I already did for months. So, I think we need more balance in this.

And please, don't tell me that trading 1.1 is not the answer, because these are card rate drops almost. It's fair and reasonable to want something this rare to be exchanged evenly.

Thank you for reading.

CongaLyne

EvilLumi

The amount we need to upgrade this gear is asking for literally hundreds of hours if we are to farm it ourselves.

Then trade with other players?
It's an MMORPG, the game is a social experience, even if you don't want to talk to other players you can buy the items you need from vend shops.

And please, don't tell me that trading 1.1 is not the answer

Then farm in another dungeon that's more profitable like Niflheim Floor 2, Depths 2 or Biospheres and buy the items that way if you feel Depth 1 isn't giving you an exchange rate you're happy with.

Not all depths items are as valuable as others, if we introduce an npc that lets you trade items 1:1 for each other then suddenly every depth item has equal value, which I understand is the suggestion but isn't it already very easy to obtain & enchant Depth 1 armors as is via trading?
It'd also kill the social aspect of trading depths items with other players

It's fair and reasonable to want something this rare to be exchanged evenly.

Maybe it's reasonable to you but don't assume it's reasonable for everyone, using that logic I should be able to exchange my MVP cards for GTBs and Kiels because they're both rare items, big -1 from me.

jinbou

EvilLumi

The amount we need to upgrade this gear is asking for literally hundreds of hours if we are to farm it ourselves.

what an exaggeration

For reference, this is what I farmed with AC in my last 30min farm session there:

Not sure how many depth mats are needed for an armor in total, I guess something like 400ish crystals, 500ish runes, 200ish essences of each type?... Should also keep in mind that we can convert Depth Energy to Crystal and Crystal to Rune, which helps with the latter levels of the enchants.

If I'm not mistaken, at this pace, I could collect all the depth-specific materials needed to make a fully enchanted engraved depth armor in somewhere betwen 20 to 25 bbg sessions, even without doing any trading. One third of that time if I sell the other loot and use that zeny to buy the mats for one specific armor.

I understand that people who don't have depth armor yet would farm slower, but at most it should be 2-3 times slower, right? If it's taking someone a hundred hours to farm something, when it's possible to do it in 5-10 hours, then the problem is simply that they're farming it way too inefficiently. The solution is to either get better gears to improve farm speed, or farm an easier map and buy the armor from the market.

MadMonkey

Well, barely ever stepped foot in Depth myself but a lot of what I was told about it could be resumed as "the farming/grind there is extremely unrewarding".

Dunno why people say that but I disagree. Depth2 is unrewarding. Depth1 is perfectly fine. The loot in these screenshots is worth like 90~100m+ probably, On top of that, I got 11.7m raw zeny from only mob kills in that session. And that is without counting the quest rewards, which is another 70+ runes, and usually a varmundt water. Yeah it's a pain to vend so many different mats so I usually don't bother with it and just throw everything in storage, but it's actually a very good zeny/hour map for people that do it.

Depth1 was already a decent map a few months ago, I was able to make my first armor in a very reasonable amount of time, and it was fun. Then Shadow Energy Stone drops were added to the mobs, which further boosted the zeny/hour there by a significant amount. Then the mob density of depth1 got increased last month, and quests started giving Depth Rune Box rewards, 2 more significant buffs to that map.

And yet people are still complaining, it's unbelievable.

Songofstorms

I thought the whole point of playing ragnarok or any other old school mmos is because of its grindy nature. Isnt that the whole appeal of playing old mmos?

Im against this because as what youve said, it is end game gears, it should be difficult to get. Multiple people on discord are already complaining that they gear their characters way too fast. For me, i think 2-3months of grind time is the perfect length for an end game gear. It shouldnt be easy as it will affect the longetivity of the game.

If youre complaining about 10hours of grind, then maybe Ragnarok isnt the game for you. This has been its whole appeal since the game started, the insane grind it takes to get a piece of gear, or zeny needed to buy said piece of gear.

The 1:1 trade of essences is already available today, you just need to socialize and ask other people. Thats how i got some of mine. Although mine is not yet max enchants, but i am slowly getting there. I couldnt even afford to grind for 10hours just 4hours a day.

Theres also no need to play catch up, as you basically only need depths gear to farm depths.

Anyway removing the endgame monotone end game grind is like asking this to turn to a new game, as it is what old mmos are all about. Also, there are other ways if you get tired of farming depths, can go to other maps and farm zeny or BBs then buy the essences instead, it promotes social interaction and helps with lessening the "demanding" upkeep

EvilLumi

Songofstorms Well, if it's already available, then let's make it official. As you said, you can just talk to people and trade, so there's no need to keep this off the table.

You didn't fully read my statement, as I said I farmed for 10 hours and it felt dull, not rewarding. If you enjoy a dull end game, then sure, you would disagree with this, but I'm asking for an alternative progression that doesn't require me to grind mass amounts of zenny, but use all the materials I have as a resource to an end. The 10 hour statement is just depths, let alone all the other areas I farmed for months, which is the part you obviously ignored.

This is not about whether I enjoy something, it's about utilizing ALL the materials. Also, this is -NOT- and I repeat, -NOT-KRO official. If it was, I wouldn't play here. I'm here, because I noticed the rates are reasonable for my time expense. It seems that a lot of people on this server joined it for the wrong reasons. I know why I'm here, because it's lenient rates, and very casual. Anyone who DOESN'T want these things, are the ones who actually shouldn't be here, because they're the ones who are on the wrong server. I read everything before I joined, and I expect a theme to continue, and not turn into an official time consuming mess.

If you rush gear, that's your issue, not mine. The people who complain there's no content, create their own problem. Maybe if people looked more at the server they joined, there would be less confusion as to why this happens.

Songofstorms

Youre missing the point as why it was made like that, by not making it exchangeable 1:1 is to promote social interaction where ones trash is another ones treasure. Instant gratification isnt one of Ragnarok's strong suit, every end game gear requires grinding.

You also seem to contradict yourself, you said you came here because it was not kro-official, but in my opinion, this is the most kro-like server out there which made it appealing to me, otherwise i would go to other servers with custom content if i dont like to play in an official like. You said you came here because its very casual, and yet youre still not contented and want the game to hold your hand and give end game gears like its candy.

Just look at it this way, depths has been implemented for quite a while now, if hundreds of people where able to make their gears before, i dont see any reason as to why you cant. Thats the thing, i never even rushed my gear. Seems to me youre the one whos rushing, the term you mentioned "playing catch up" is a testament to it.

The reason why ragnarok can get away with its absurdly low rates is because almost everything is tradeable. The main social aspect of the game is through trading. Party isnt necessary with how powerful the gears are, even with mid gear you can farm anything aside from depths and alice madness.

Progression will always take time. Its called end game gear for a reason. It should take a considerable amount of effort to get to it.

Maybe when new updates come and depths isnt the end game gear anymore can it be made easier to acquire. Otherwise, it would do more harm to longetivity.

EvilLumi

Songofstorms We're on a private server, with plenty of QoL. i'm asking for a QoL, which might entice people to farm there in party groups, instead of taking 2-3 friends, as it's not worth anyone's time to do so otherwise. I don't need an explanation as to why gravity does what it does. Gravity does things for 1-2k playerbases, something we don't have. Gravity also tries to squeeze enormous amounts of time out of people, for reasons OTHER than creating an experience, but rather, creating an incentive to use cash shop in order to progress. We don't do that here if you didn't notice. Stop with the social interaction as well. I'm actually wondering just how many of you take the time to actually DO social interactions with people here, and just lead by the hand, not by the book. I bet that number isn't very high.

arufii

I agree with this suggestion, as I got essentially soft-locked from enchanting my armor for a couple weeks because nobody was selling or trading the essences I needed and market was scarce to the point of having to camp it.

This was after I had already grinded for all the other materials myself over the course of two months, yet I was missing more than half of the essences needed for a full enchant.

Stepbro

Increased drop rate? No.

Exchange essences? Yes

MadMonkey

Well, barely ever stepped foot in Depth myself but a lot of what I was told about it could be resumed as "the farming/grind there is extremely unrewarding".
I'm talking about peeps that are used to/did farm for all their shit so far.
It stands to reason then, that it might indeed be a problem and not just a "(end)game is supposed to be grindy, bear with it" situation.

Not sure about what would be a solution to be honest.
All I know is it shouldn't have to come to this:

CongaLyne Then farm in another dungeon that's more profitable like Niflheim Floor 2, Depths 2 or Biospheres and buy the items

EvilLumi

CongaLyne No, using your logic, we're not using logic at all. These are material items, items that we need hundreds of, that drop by double digit every 30 minutes, if you have someone who's willing to share their time with you. Otherwise, if you run a full party, you're getting a lot less. How did you come up with trading mvp cards over material handling?

Secondly, this is not a social aspect, stop using an excuse that I need to talk to someone in order to progress. I'm already social enough around my circle, and I don't need the stress of dealing some irrational person because they deem their time somehow more valuable than a base price.

This will not kill anything, because those items will still be needed as a whole. What the hell gave you the idea that this somehow breaks value of things? The items are necessary, and always will be, so they will retain what value they have because their drop rates don't change. (unless that suggestion is the one that is considered)

I also don't need to be reminded that this is an mmo. I know what a social experience is, and I don't need anyone to remind me. Asking for a quality of life change, to make parties more viable and interested in running depths, IS part of the social aspect of things. You want MORE interaction, not limited.

I already put hours into this game, beyond what I should, and hitting a wall like this is stupid. I joined a private server, and so did you. If you don't like things easing up for others, then perhaps you really are in the wrong place. Not all of us want to spend hundreds of hours on gear that will be replaced by the time you finalize it. Some of us want to enjoy the benefits of that gear, without spending every last hour of our waking day, suffering, because YOU, and some others think this is NORMAL. It's not, it's not balanced, and this is the reason why you play HERE, and not on any official server. Stop using -logic- you know nothing about, and consider where you are, and the people you are surrounded BY. This is a casual server, and every single quality of life thing we have proves it.

I'm asking for an item exchange, NOT a FREE HAND OUT.

LAC

jinbou

jinbou I could collect all the depth-specific materials needed to make a fully enchanted engraved depth armor in somewhere betwen 20 to 25 bbg sessions

Are you sure about that estimate? Even without any trading you say. I would love to see a .rrf file of that happening.

jinbou I understand that people who don't have depth armor yet would farm slower, but at most it should be 2-3 times slower, right?

Are you asking us or telling us lol
This is the problem with you people who have everything maxed out, constantly trying to explain players who haven't how 'easy' the game is or how fast the 'progression' is from your high ground.

CongaLyne using that logic I should be able to exchange my MVP cards for GTBs and Kiels

Explain how a 0.04 drop, game changing item is equivalent to a misc item that has no effect on gameplay until it is massed in the hundreds. Try using logic next reply.

I am getting sick of even engaging with such replies because all you people do is cock block other people from actually playing the game. This is a private server, which is designed to ease out stuff. If you feel the progression is too fast here I am sure you would love the official servers with 0.01 mvp card rates and disrespect of your time and effort put in. Don't try to lecture someone on how they aren't hard working enough because you got lucky with rng and got billions of zeny with a single card drop, from the 'boosted' rates and 'fast' progression you like to complain about.

And before someone asks, I have 3 of the 4 depth armors maxed out. I farmed for 1 and realized how much of stupid bullshit it is and bought the mats for the other two.

Gonna be my last reply.

Songofstorms

EvilLumi

First of all, this server is advertised as kro like. Not kro like for people who dont want to put in effort for progression.

Second, your logic of asking to make things easier for you, because you cant put the same time as others who already invested their time making the armors contradicts your logic of others thinking their time is more valuable than yours. Your statement in fact, suggests otherwise.

Third, this is end game gear we are talking about. It shouldnt be easy.

Let's say this pushed on, pretend Muh decided to invalidate the efforts that other people invested to make their armors, which afaik, majority of the players. What will happen next? Lower the requirements for time dimension crowns enchants? Reduce it by 50% because right now, it takes couple of hours for a person to enchant a time dimension crown for just a single level. Also, getting MVP cards which is also end game item, takes long time investment too, maybe buff the drop rate to 0.2% as well. Oh and put in an exchange system 1:1 so i can trade my moonlight card to demi lasgand card.

End game grind is always a core part of mmos, and so is social interaction. By making things too convenient is antithesis to the appeal of an old school mmo.

If the gears arent the end game gears, then i am all for buffing it since as youve said, playing catch up is not a very good feeling. But this is already the current end game BiS. Theres no catching up needed. It is the CURRENT finish line.

I am in fact, playing in the right server. As it is advertised as casual friendly and I get the item i want for a relatively proportial effort i put in. Casual friendly meaning you dont need the current depth gears to do 95% of the game.

I started playing this game without rushing depths gear and went to farming geffenia, ct basement and bbs. Then when i decided i want to get my depth gears, i grinded for it and was rewarded.

Meatbaals

slowly when d1 is no more bis, they will up the rates or other options to ease the grind. As they did for varmundt gears. (esp rings)

MadMonkey

jinbou My bad, I thought we were talking about Depth2.
Disregard what I said.

Except the second part.
The second part is still relevant.

jinbou

LAC

Are you sure about that estimate? Even without any trading you say.

It was a rough estimate I wasn't sure, too lazy. But all the data is on wiki you can easily calculate it.

But ok sure, let's do the math.

Armor Cost:

30 depth soul/puri rune

15 depth soul/puri essence

Engrave Cost:

60 depth soul/puri rune

30 depth soul/puri essence

Slot 2 Essence:

160 depth soul/puri crystal

305 depth soul/puri rune

120 depth soul/puri essence

Slot 3+4 Essence:

150 depth soul/puri energy

250 depth soul/puri crystal

125 depth soul/puri rune

70 depth soul/puri essence

Total:

150 depth soul/puri energy

410 depth soul/puri crystal

520 depth soul/puri rune

235 depth soul/puri essence

Now I'll convert the required energy and crystals to runes for easier calculation, since we end up with tons of extra materials from those types later on and we do need to convert a lot of them anyway:

Total w/ energy & crystal to rune conversion for easier calculation:

605 depth soul/puri rune

235 depth soul/puri essence

Now looking at the screenshot to check how many soul/puri rune we end up with after a 30min farm, if we convert the energy & crystals to runes. It's basically somewhere between 23~36 runes, in a 30min farm, depending on rng.

I'll just lowball it and say 28 runes average:

605 / 28 = 21.5 bbg sessions to gather all the runes needed

Keep in mind I didn't even take into account the runes that are given as quest rewards (Depth Rune Box) in this calculation. It's usually 70+ random runes, so about 10 rune of each type. If we count that too, then it's:

605 / 38 = 16 bbg sessions to gather all the runes needed

as for essence, it's somewhere between 10~15 essences per 30 min, so I'll just lowball it again and take 11 as average:

235 / 11 = 21.3 bbg sessions

Overall, at worst case it ends up as 22 sessions, or 11 hours. And that's with a lot of lowballing to make sure we don't rely on lucky rng.

I would love to see a .rrf file of that happening.

sure, I don't play much nowadays, busy times at work, but I'll try to record it next time I go depth1 if you're curious. Might take a few days or a few weeks tho, can't give a date.

Are you asking us or telling us lol

This is the problem with you people who have everything maxed out, constantly trying to explain players who haven't how 'easy' the game is or how fast the 'progression' is from your high ground.

Sorry but this is an endgame map, one of the 2 most difficult maps in the entire game. Yes of course you need endgame gears if you want to farm there properly.

I don't have any mvp cards. I'm missing enchants on my trait shadows. Both of my varmundt rings only have broken biosphere gems on slot 2, and slot3/slot4 are also not maxed out. My weapon is also not BiS, I'm using dim instead of flush because its cheaper. I also don't have any ep20 cards yet. I don't have any unrealistic gears that are too hard to get.

It's only been 3 months since I made my first armor in depth, I'm not some ultra rich player that's been playing since years. In fact I farmed most of its enchants right after the mobs there got buffed, but before the rewards were increased, so at the worst time possible really. It was fun & relatively quick regardless.

Songofstorms

LAC im assuming youre the same person as the OP, because of "going to be my last reply" and having no other previous replies, and based on how you feel entitled to have an easy time getting end game gears.

Anyways, we are not blocking players from getting end game gears. The term blocking is synonymous to stopping or preventing, which we arent doing. Players can still get to their end game gears.

As for my case, i just dont want to hurt the longetivity of the game. End game gears are basically BiS. By nature of mmos, BiS items are supposed to require some effort to get them. What your suggesting isnt some effort but minimal effort. Also the players before you and me, already have their armors and crafted them without complaining, it would be disrespectful of their time and effort to suddenly change it, with it still being the best items in game. I would agree with you if its not the current BiS.

Also, not having depths armor doesnt prevent people from playing the game, it is quite the opposite actually, with players having a goal in mind, makes them more motivated unless they just came here with expectation of being handed everything for no effort.

You keep talking about this "logic" but if we go by your "logic" that mvp cards are game changing, while depth mats to craft depths armor is not, then doesnt that defeat the whole purpose of your crusade against mats being non-exchangeable? If its not game changing, then it doesnt matter if you have it or not, it wouldnt affect your gameplay.

I also dont see the relevancy of having 3 out of 4 armors. I only have 1, and in the process of making another one. But it doesnt meant i should feel entitled to have an easier time making my 2nd one.

Again, im okay with making it easier if its not end game gear, as progression should be faster than getting to end game gears, but as of the current state of the game, i think its fair that it takes a bit of effort to craft them, considering a lot of players have already done it without asking of an easier time. Its just plain slap in the face for others who already made them through their own time and effort.

kaiakaito

Moving it for now to rejected.