Requesting the ability to use skills like Backstep on the Event map

LoreChief

It would be nice if I was able to use skills to navigate out of AoE's during the invasion. I think a lot of classes get to bring many advantages to the content so I'm unsure why some classes get disadvantages by having their skills locked out.

Thanks!

pipi

LoreChief

The reason skill like back slide and body relocation disabled in event maps because a lot people abusing these skill to get more cowring / treasure chest event.

So I disagree to this suggestion to enable such as those skill again. If you really need those skill for town invasion event maybe suggest to make that event in different map.

EvilLumi

LoreChief If anything, I suggest disabling teleport on the map, so people have an even chance to get what they need from events.

pipi

cruro

But that only matters if you are going to travel long distances. I'd argue that in those events it's only used to gap-close, since most players will just keep teleporting if they don't see a monster on the screen - afterall nothing will beat moving by a whole screen dimension every 0.14s which every job can do.

Bruh, i already met a lot of sura teleport at the same time and then snapping into treasure chest then teleport right after. This is why body relocation disabled because a lot of muh coins hunters are using sura in the past.

I knew back then people also abusing ranger / windhawk to get long range. But now both cowrings and treasure chest are immune to skills. Although they are immune to skills we still need to have disable ground skill such as body relocation and back slide.

Leap is an unfortunate special case as it can circumvent map limitations (like teleport) which the other movement skills cannot, but that's besides the point (since you can teleport in Neustadt).

Circumvent like jump through wall? there is solution for that just make it not able to jump through wall in map that can’t teleport. Your very main class are the most toxic class in such map as biosphere depth, jumping around very fast to someone mobs and then trigger noKS system.

Oh I wasn't aware, it's been a while since I joined those.

????? If you didn’t join those event for a while, why did you have to be stubborn earlier? LOL.

You should research first before giving your opinion, don’t you think?

cruro

In that case I totally get the point. The only solution would be to move those events specifically to a different map which.. is really not worth the hassle. It's just a minor inconvenience afterall.

This is why i replied to lorechief post priorly with this

pipi

So I disagree to this suggestion to enable such as those skill again. If you really need those skill for town invasion event maybe suggest to make that event in different map.

pipi

cruro

It's almost as if opinions change when presented with new information.

Oh you are still here? earlier you weren’t able to answer anymore only able to like your friend jinbou post. Yes your opinion change but you did wrong about body relocation was abused, didn’t you? until you present to some data like this and still wrong

cruro

But that only matters if you are going to travel long distances. I'd argue that in those events it's only used to gap-close, since most players will just keep teleporting if they don't see a monster on the screen - afterall nothing will beat moving by a whole screen dimension every 0.14s which every job can do.

I don’t know from where you got this 0.14s, is this something you made of or you are only good with theory?

First thing first can you answer about your statement from post 1?

cruro

I don't quite see the "abuse" for the mentioned events, considering that it's still at least one more button press than just picking a ranged auto-attacking job.

How did you able to reach this kind of assumption? After all you didn’t join those event for a while you said.

Even if you did join in the past you should able to meet across some shadow cross spamming body relocation, cart cannon, back slide, savage impact in map event (serene city).

But i would like to know why did you think “dont quite see the abuse” here?

cruro

So which one is it now? Am I not capable to say when I'm wrong, or am I "feigning ignorance" for doing so?

Both are the same you weren’t able to say that you’re wrong and trying to feign ignorance by not replying to my statement 🙂.

cruro

It's clear you are not interested in arguing in good faith here and actively undermine any constructive discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if some people already refrained from posting, just to not get caught up in this.

This is the exact opposite on how a healthy discussion culture should look like and is honestly not worth the time of either of us.

What do you mean from the very first of my reply to this suggestion are this:

pipi

The reason skill like back slide and body relocation disabled in event maps because a lot people abusing these skill to get more cowring / treasure chest event.

So I disagree to this suggestion to enable such as those skill again. If you really need those skill for town invasion event maybe suggest to make that event in different map.

Are there any harm from my first post? i only told the fact of abused skill and i suggest to the author of this post to make another suggestion to make that event in different map.

If there is any harm from my first reply please tell me and screenshot it if you are able to. I will delete the post 😉. For real please cruro.

You are the one keep on denial about your very main class abused skill, or are you trying to change topic here to make you able to keep your PRIDE because you can’t admit that you’re wrong?

At first, everytime i saw you in discord you are someone with broad knowledge because you always provide numbers or data by but it seems i was wrong.

cruro

For me it's mostly just a minor inconvenience as it takes me a second to realize why my char is not moving when I go to Neustadt (using movement skills).

I don't quite see the "abuse" for the mentioned events, considering that it's still at least one more button press than just picking a ranged auto-attacking job.

But maybe there are other considerations, ultimatively I don't feel too strongly about it.

pipi

cruro

You can try it yourself, race with body relocation against guyak. The difference is too much and since when event in map serene city people already abuse inquisitor / shadow cross and much other class to get more coins. I know you are sura main and you already know how fast is snapping with body relo.

I don't quite see the "abuse" for the mentioned events, considering that it's still at least one more button press than just picking a ranged auto-attacking job.

Maybe you have low awareness to your surrounding? Or you didn’t pay attention that much? People are abusing body relocation, back slide and savage impact for long time in event map.

For me it's mostly just a minor inconvenience as it takes me a second to realize why my char is not moving when I go to Neustadt (using movement skills).

Get used to it or you don’t have to join event if you feel unpleasant with those skill disabled. Your inquisitor class still lucky able to use body relocation in most of the map example: Biosphere Depth.

Meanwhile Soul Ascetic leap skill disabled everywhere in place you can’t teleport and must walk in all of those map. Didn’t you think they are also unpleasant when can’t use leap in a lot maps? Or maybe should i suggest disable body relocation like leap in those map to make it more balanced?

With a lot of abused skill disabled and range class hit will hit as close as melee, now the event seems balanced. And all character in neustadt got same movement speed as cart boost.

jinbou

cruro IIRC ranged autoattacks don't work against cowring/treasure box anymore

I assume they want those two events to be absolutely fair for every class, and that's why all mobility spells/ranged attacks are disabled. I'd like using backslide during invasion too but it can't be helped

aewuu

cruro

Alternatively, if you feel you are getting hitlocked and cannot move. Try using @refresh.

pipi

cruro

There were a lot of question marks in the sentences you directed at me, so I felt the need to elaborate. I think you overestimate my emotional investment in this topic.

I'm picking my points very carefully already, but that won't always save me from missing a detail. That's why it's necessary to discuss and get a full picture.

Yes you might be already picking your points very carefully but you don’t have to in denial so many times if you didn’t research enough about the mechanics.

Example of your denial:

cruro

I don't quite see the "abuse" for the mentioned events, considering that it's still at least one more button press than just picking a ranged auto-attacking job.

cruro

Oh sure, Backslide and Body Relocate are definitely faster than a simple movement speed increase like Guyak or Cart Boost.

But that only matters if you are going to travel long distances. I'd argue that in those events it's only used to gap-close, since most players will just keep teleporting if they don't see a monster on the screen - afterall nothing will beat moving by a whole screen dimension every 0.14s which every job can do.

And, again, gap closing is still at least one button press more than not gap-closing (shooting from afar), so I don't quite see how the former would earn the label of "abuse" while the latter doesn't.

And then you simply went to the route by give this kind of reasoning :

cruro

Oh I wasn't aware, it's been a while since I joined those.

I was like LOL, it feels like i was talking to someone that still live in cave since many years ago but he doesn’t up to date.

cruro

With that, I could think of a few reasonable approaches:

keep everything as it is right now

move treasure/cowring hunt to its own event map (still movement skill restricted) and lift the restriction from Neustadt

keep treasure/cowring hunt in Neustadt, but move seasonal events to a different map

(Though I feel like 2+3 might not be worth the effort here)

What made you think 2+3 isn’t worth the effort here? Both halloween event and town invasion during winter are already in different map. I am curious, what made you think like that?

cruro

pipi

Oh sure, Backslide and Body Relocate are definitely faster than a simple movement speed increase like Guyak or Cart Boost.

But that only matters if you are going to travel long distances. I'd argue that in those events it's only used to gap-close, since most players will just keep teleporting if they don't see a monster on the screen - afterall nothing will beat moving by a whole screen dimension every 0.14s which every job can do.

And, again, gap closing is still at least one button press more than not gap-closing (shooting from afar), so I don't quite see how the former would earn the label of "abuse" while the latter doesn't.

Leap is an unfortunate special case as it can circumvent map limitations (like teleport) which the other movement skills cannot, but that's besides the point (since you can teleport in Neustadt).

cruro

jinbou Oh I wasn't aware, it's been a while since I joined those.

In that case I totally get the point. The only solution would be to move those events specifically to a different map which.. is really not worth the hassle. It's just a minor inconvenience afterall.

pipi

jinbou

At least what i said is based on facts? You can see throughout this post, your friend cruro are on denial many times about the sura skill and after you said about range class

jinbou

IIRC ranged autoattacks don't work against cowring/treasure box anymore

he went to easier route trying to feign ignorance

cruro

Oh I wasn't aware, it's been a while since I joined those.

Oh wow rich coming from you, you can talk about this?

Anyway, I had already reported some of your messages in a different thread as I was bothered by them even though I wasn't even involved. I didn't intend to butt in since I doubt you'll be allowed to send messages like that for much longer anyway, but couldn't hold myself after seeing that gentleman comment sorry xd

Why don’t you see most of your post in some suggestion? you are only defending suggestion that is benefit your class. When there are suggestion like adrenaline rush scroll, noks, state of the game, allow ancilla to change element, change mystical ampfilication. Most of those are not benefitting to you that is the reason you were disagree.

I think it should just work the way it works in the official. If %FCT/Sacrament reduces it in kRO, it should do it here too. Otherwise it shouldn't.

Since kRO actively makes changes to the balance of skills already, I think it's unnecessary for MuhRO to make custom changes on top of it, Just following the meta of the officials works fine for now. Custom skill balance changes to pvm could get controversial (and starting with a buff to AM, no matter how small it is, would be controversial for sure, and might be followed by other classes asking for similar small buffs).

don't like the idea of making big custom changes to skills like that

incoming "can we bring chemical protection scrolls too if we'll add it for adrenaline rush?"

There's nothing "insulting" or "non-neutral stance" here. Like I said, this server follows kRO only, so other servers like iRO or pRO having whatever scroll is completely irrelevant, regardless of how weak/strong the scroll effect is. I was simply stating this fact, that part of my comment is not even a personal opinion.

what an exaggeration

For reference, this is what I farmed with AC in my last 30min farm session there:

Not sure how many depth mats are needed for an armor in total, I guess something like 400ish crystals, 500ish runes, 200ish essences of each type?... Should also keep in mind that we can convert Depth Energy to Crystal and Crystal to Rune, which helps with the latter levels of the enchants.

All of these are your post correct? You fought really hard about customization such as like ancilla to change element and mystical amplification reduce FCT. 🙂

cruro

pipi

????? If you didn’t join those event for a while, why did you have to be stubborn earlier? LOL.

There were a lot of question marks in the sentences you directed at me, so I felt the need to elaborate. I think you overestimate my emotional investment in this topic.

You should research first before giving your opinion, don’t you think?

I'm picking my points very carefully already, but that won't always save me from missing a detail. That's why it's necessary to discuss and get a full picture.

On the other hand, getting upset and ranting about unrelated topics is rather exhausting (I won't respond to those from now on) and detracts from the valid point you made: That movement skills will re-introduce an advantage for treasure/cowring hunt specifically, after other class-specific advantages (namely range) have already been addressed and removed.

This is not what the suggestions aims to do (since it's about the spring event specifically), but it would be the unintended side-effect.

Personally I'm mostly only faced with that restriction when I want to visit an NPC in Neustadt and have to remember to walk (you can imagine how little of a deal it really is in the end, but it's not only about me).

With that, I could think of a few reasonable approaches:

keep everything as it is right now
move treasure/cowring hunt to its own event map (still movement skill restricted) and lift the restriction from Neustadt
keep treasure/cowring hunt in Neustadt, but move seasonal events to a different map

(Though I feel like 2+3 might not be worth the effort here)

Songofstorms

This will be game breaking as it will be considered an advantage to specific classes and will make the event unfair for those who arent playing said classes.

Just like before when treasure chests can be doped or can be aoed by other classes or can be attacked by range

Songofstorms

cruro i think keeping everything as it is right now is the right option. Imo, the iteration of the events right now is the fairest for everyone, except for assassins ofcourse (defend neusdat)

Cowring and treasure chests are pretty much equalized already for other jobs. Just slap on atk speed and every class is fine.

Having movement skills will completely turn the favor to those classes specially for cowrings.

cruro

I'll focus on what potentially moves the discussion forward:

pipi What made you think 2+3 isn’t worth the effort here? Both halloween event and town invasion during winter are already in different map. I am curious, what made you think like that?

For 2+3: New maps take a lot of effort (though maybe an existing map can be repurposed) and this thread so far didn't convince me that there are many players that would appreciate the work invested there (and thus taken away from other topics).

For 3 specifically: Currently it's part of the design that the spring event happens in Neustadt and makes the NPCs vanish, this makes the implementation less portable to just any map and will require more tinkering to ensure everything still works correctly. Additionally, it would kind of change the vision they had in mind - putting an invasion neatly away in a seperate map where it doesn't interfer, might not be what they wanted to go for.

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't like 2 or 3 (I'd probably prefer 2 myself), but we should consider the pro's/con's and if the benefits justify the effort.

pipi

cruro

I'll focus on what potentially moves the discussion forward:

Okay i’ll take this as you are admitting about your low awareness about the abuse such as skill body relocation 🙂. Although you aren’t capable to say sorry about your ignorance or such as that thing as a gentleman.

For 2+3: New maps take a lot of effort (though maybe an existing map can be repurposed) and this thread so far didn't convince me that there are many players that would appreciate the work invested there (and thus taken away from other topics).

For 3 specifically: Currently it's part of the design that the spring event happens in Neustadt and makes the NPCs vanish, this makes the implementation less portable to just any map and will require more tinkering to ensure everything still works correctly. Additionally, it would kind of change the vision they had in mind - putting an invasion neatly away in a seperate map where it doesn't interfer, might not be what they wanted to go for.

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't like 2 or 3 (I'd probably prefer 2 myself), but we should consider the pro's/con's and if the benefits justify the effort.

Why don’t you think like this, they can use some big map that is already existent and put restriction skill?

They don’t have to always make new map like winter town invasion. Just change the floor and trees to green are enough to make it new event season map. Except they want to make exclusive map like those previous events.

You are thinking like an amateur project manager, that always say everything is hard to make or not worth. You can take example from no*a, for some event they use existent map and only disable teleport and other skills.

jinbou

pipi dude you have been throwing insults and being toxic in every single post you've made with that account so far, and you're talking about being a gentleman?… I can't lmao

Anyway, I had already reported some of your messages in a different thread as I was bothered by them even though I wasn't even involved. I didn't intend to butt in since I doubt you'll be allowed to send messages like that for much longer anyway, but couldn't hold myself after seeing that gentleman comment sorry xd

cruro

pipi he went to easier route trying to feign ignorance

It's almost as if opinions change when presented with new information.

pipi Although you aren’t capable to say sorry about your ignorance

So which one is it now? Am I not capable to say when I'm wrong, or am I "feigning ignorance" for doing so?

It's clear you are not interested in arguing in good faith here and actively undermine any constructive discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if some people already refrained from posting, just to not get caught up in this.

This is the exact opposite on how a healthy discussion culture should look like and is honestly not worth the time of either of us.