End of Varmundt Hammer monopoly

tuso

First, the fact that varmundt hammer is only acquire from mvp drop, means a player must wait for 2hours+ respawn period to get a chance killing mvp and pray RNG will favor you for a 2.74% drop rate, is actually fine. The big problem is there are few end game crocs only set their timers to wait for MVP to respawn, melting mvps like snack.
The demand for varmundt hammer is very high but considering the drop rate/respawn period and newbie competing for endgame players is too much.

My suggestions are:

Can buy in NPC,..no more KS, no more waiting for MVP, end of monopoly,
Mechanics for MVP respawn is same with illusion dungeons, this will reduce/hinder end game players to steal MVP using their shenanigans
Remove mvp card drop in the dungeon/increase drop rate for hammer,... newbies only need hammer while end game players greed for another reason. thus, taking away the opportunity from mostly newbies to get the hammer.
Hammer can be drop by a certain mob at a very bery low drop rate.
any/all of the above.

TIA

EvilLumi

So, this is technically NOT a monopoly. You are not restricted by anything but your own potential, that you will eventually reach. A monopoly would be something you cannot compete with, due to a system that is no longer in the game, so those perceived players are the only ones who can do the activity and receive the reward.

I understand you're bitter, but you shouldn't be angry over something that you cannot do yet, and someone else can. There will always be people stronger than you, but that doesn't mean they are abusing the system, but rather, they are using their earned strength to their advantage.

I do agree with your suggestion in regards to making the hammer buyable, I just wanted to help you understand that it's not a monopoly, but a hard earned privilege. They are also working within the game's rules, unless you have something you want to tell us.

MadMonkey

EvilLumi this is technically NOT a monopoly

It is tho.
It's litterally a handful of player monopolizing a sought after ressource.
It's not necessarily done with malicious intent, and I doubt all of them are actually conspiring to do it, but this definitely is the end result.

EvilLumi that doesn't mean they are abusing the system, but rather, they are using their earned strength to their advantage

Now THIS is a load of crap.
It's absolutely an abuse.
A type that tends to be commonly tolerated in most online multiplayer community, but an abuse nonetheless.

A MvP drop chance bump would make sense.
And making it a low chance map drop would probably alleviate a bit the phenomenon, but even then it'd mostly be a bandaid rather than a real solution, as there are none.
It's all about greed, not skill/saltyness, and certainly not about fair gameplay.

StellarFlare

Sincerely, I've been thinking of adding a low drop chance for mobs to drop the hammer like we have in illusion, would be a good idea and to make the mvps drop the hammer more often
The Cooldown for the mvps plus the timer makes it unsustainable to farm those for an entire server worth of people

EvilLumi

MadMonkey MVPs are free for all. Anyone on this server is allowed to step in and take any mvp they want, if they are able to. Doing so, competitively, does NOT equate to monopoly. Those handful of people are working TOGETHER, doing an activity ANYONE can do, and they're doing it efficiently, so that they can secure the loot. When, at any point, was being competitive, some kind of exploitive activity? if you feel they are holding an mvp hostage, then do something about it. Find friends and compete for it, otherwise, let them continue farming their way.

You say it's abusive, but you don't explain how or why? it's a simple approach to life: First come, first serve. This part of the game does NOT need to be fair. MVPs are the only competitive concept that this game has, aside from woe/bg/pvp, and if you're not strong enough, you're not WILLING enough, you don't want to put in the effort? then you don't get the prize. It's very simple.

I'm not defending what they're doing, I'm defending the definition of a monopoly. You are NOT going to turn a competitive scene and probably the only one, as some abusive activity. You have to realize that at some point, you have to fight for your loot, and if you can't do it, then farm the zenny, get stronger, and show them that they're not alone, otherwise, you'll just let them do it alone.

If you're not willing to put in the same effort, it just means you're lazy, or unprepared. Fix both, organize some groups, and look forward to something beyond your usual mindless farm. Whoever they are, they must be good friends, especially if they're willing to do something like this daily. Perhaps that is the missing ingredient for anyone looking to farm this hammer.

Again, I am not defending this, I am stating that you are wrong in your assumption, and could have fell victim to their organized activity, and feel you are owed something. This is definitely not the case, and shouldn't be. Farming a mob, a card, or any other specific item, and doing it efficiently should NEVER be recognized as malicious, or be promoted as some sort of monopolizing activity. Everyone can take part in this activity, freely, and they should, so that this market becomes competitive.

I know this was long, but thank you for reading.

MadMonkey

EvilLumi There seems to be some misconceptions about what was said and why.
Like I said, there isn't necessarily any malicious intent behind it, and I'd rather believe this is not as organized a venture as it might be (that'd make it even less defensible), but, when all is said and done, it all boils down to a group of players exercising exclusive control of a sought after ressource, which is the literal, textbook definition of a monopoly.
Is it an unbreakable status quo?
No.
But neither does it make it less of a monopoly than it is.

As for the abuse thing, you say it is competitiveness, and part of the game, and you'd be right.
And I say hoarding ressources and actively preventing others from partaking in it in an online multiplayer game is foul play, and I wouldn't be wrong either.

Now you are right, MvPs are free for all, and as far as I know, it's technically not against any server rules.
But there's a thin line between being competitive and being a greedy, egotistical cunt, and a lot of people fail to make the distinction it seems.

MadMonkey It's absolutely an abuse.
A type that tends to be commonly tolerated in most online multiplayer community, but an abuse nonetheless.

I stand by what I said.
No rules have been broken.
Still, if one's idea of competition is hoarding/preventing others access to a ressource they might need to level the playing field between both, then it isn't fair competition, just content gatekeeping.
And while usually tolerated/not cared about, it does constitute an abuse.

And this is one long ass post too, sheesh.

Misao

I think increasing the drop rate is reasonable. There's too few hammers and too much demand, and being MVP drops that's an issue.

You might argue that would remove an endgame incentive. But while I'm not at the level where I can kill those bosses in 1 second, I'm pretty sure it's not much of an incentive to have a strong endgame, and more of an incentive to setup a very precise array of timers and tryhard them.

On the other hand, these items ARE NOT A REQUIREMENT for any build or class. You can perfectly refine your stuff to +11 or that last +12 without them, in the event that they become more expensive than the regular refine route.

EvilLumi

MadMonkey I'm sorry, I'm not sure how to quote small pieces of text, so bare with me D:

You use the word "preventing", which is actually not true, nor are they doing that. No one is capable of preventing anyone from farming. That map is not being held by a quest line, nor is anyone restricted from going to it, and seeking the same thing. The only thing they are doing, is capitalizing on their core strength, which is maybe what a lot of the playerbase has not reached yet. Regardless, they are simply just playing the game, and in no way are they preventing anyone from competing.

Hoarding resources is technically part of the privilege that people receive once they attain that power. Is it fair? Well, yes. It took them a long time to reach that stage. Are they being greedy and possibly using this advantage to hold a market? the obvious answer is already there, and yes, that is wrong, but, it's their right.

Let me explain: When I first started here, there was very little resources for gray wolf gear. So, what I decided to do, was create a set of characters, do the whole quest line, and VASTLY BENEFIT from a DEAD market. I made and funded quite a lot of my ventures just from being the main supplier for this stage of the game. Now, I had this idea with FUNDING in mind, but that doesn't make me some sort of fiend, it just means I chose to invest my time into an opportunity that most did not prefer, but where a market was thirsty.

Now, my idea was very simple, but their idea is very similar: They are tapping into a market that not many want to, or CAN compete in. In essence, they are providing a service, for you, and everyone else. Yes, they make their own prices, and it might seem unfair, but I was able to do the same, and people still bought my things.

From what you wrote, you seem to be bitter with them, whoever they are, and sure, they might be what you say, or worse, but it shouldn't matter. They are simply playing the game, and tapping into a wanted resource, and doing everything they can to claim that resource. That in itself, is just gameplay, and nothing else.

Most ambitious people are usually mean, inconsiderate, and can only see their baseline of an idea, and unfortunately, that's what makes them so successful. I've spoken to many people in my time, and the most achieved people, were the ones who didn't have time for me, or just simply, didn't have time. You, call this greed, which in essence, it is, but it's a road to success. Fortunately, for you, and everyone on this server, you can actually reach that level of gear, and eventually, you can become the farmer for these items, but you can only do that if you really want to. Basically, you have to want it, like they did, or you will never get it.

I'm sorry if I'm defending their right to do this, but I would feel annoyed as well if someone told me I was holding a monopoly over this server, because I chose to irrationally farm a mob with such precision, that no one else would have the chance to. That is my choice, and although, yes, I am hoarding items people may want/need, but the rules and mechanics of the game allow me to, so why should I, or anyone for that matter, care? I'm just playing the game, and at any point, ANYONE can replace me, outwit me, or simply out farm me. The only thing I can do then, is try even harder, if I really care enough.

I hope this hammer does go for sale so that at least you get your peace of mind, but I also hope that you change your train of thought and not let the extreme efforts of others feel like it's an impossibility. You should always remember, if someone can do it, nothing, and I mean ABSOLUTELY nothing is stopping you, and your friends, from achieving that same goal, unless of course they're actually abusing a system that you're not aware of, or can never replicate.

Once again, thank you for reading, and thank you for being so reasonable in your replies.

Choi

I personally don't think a change is necessary for these. When I used to hunt the varmundt mvps, I thought that having the refine hammers attached to the mvps made competing for them more fun and rewarding.

I also don't think there's a monopoly on those mvps, but that it requires a bit more work for others to compete. Before I could solo the varmundt mvps effectively, I would set timers and ask my friends to help me find the mvps and dps them to compete. I think anyone with decent mid-to-end game gear should be able to contest the mvps pretty effectively against others, since most of the time spent is trying to find it rather than fighting the mvp itself. Field MVPing should be competitive, and the onus should be on the players to be more competitive.

Lastly, I'm pretty surprised people are still buying the varmundt hammers at the current price I see them being sold for. You don't really need it at +12 unless you're using the Rgan cards, and I would think at that point just using BSB to get it to +11 is much more cost-effective.

That being said, I like your first option the most. But instead of the hammers being bought, they could be crafted using some of the mats from the respective dungeons (Flush and Clock Tower included).

MadMonkey

EvilLumi Well.
Can't say I share your views on this but fair enough.
Let's agree to disagree then.

Just some quick bullet points :

EvilLumi I'm not sure how to quote small pieces of text

You just highlight the targeted text with your mouse, and should appear a contextual pop up with the quoting option.

EvilLumi you seem to be bitter with them

Not at all.
Nothing personal really, I'm just not that big on the concept, the mindset that allows/encourages it and the end result.

EvilLumi Most ambitious people are usually mean, inconsiderate, and can only see their baseline of an idea

True.
And I believe that such a line of conduct doesn't belong in a (mostly) community-based online multiplayer game.
But hey, it is what it is.

EvilLumi I'm sorry if I'm defending their right to do this

Don't be.
You are entitled to your own opinions.

EvilLumi thank you for reading, and thank you for being so reasonable in your replies

No prob.

I'll finish by saying that I wasn't the one calling for the staff's intervention on this problem (that'd be the OP) and I do not expect them to.
As I said/implied already, such things are common occurences in any RO servers (most online multiplayer game really) and I'm well aware it's considered a non issue by the vast majority of the community as a whole.
An opinion I do not share.