Mjolnir underground cave zeny needs buff.

karunatan

CongaLyne all melee builds are innately bad at dungeon farming, this isn't unique to mjolnir.

Just to drop my two cents here - I farm here just fine, I'm melee and rely on leech gears. This applies to all the other dungeons as well.

Of course you'll be off to a bad start as a melee if you don't gear yourself.

Two cents out.

BuffNotNerf

CongaLyne Theres clearly a misunderstanding here. I never asked to make mjolnir to be better than niff2. I even stated that it doesnt need to be as good as niff2. So do not worry, i know niff2 is easy and not everyone can farm mjol underground. It would be unfair if suddenly mjol becomes better and people cant farm the best dungeon anymore because of its difficulty.

I just pointed out that mjol is more difficult to farm on and i think its only fair that it shouldnt be significantly inferior to a far more easier dungeon like niff2.

I am merely asking if its possible to make it close to niff2. I compared both my BB gain, zelu, shadowdecon and zeny per hour on both maps. Everything is the same so I figured it is meant to be an alternative. At its current state though, its a waste of time and effort because the difference in zeny is just that big.

Zeny might not be the reason you farm niff, but it will always be a factor when it comes to how attractive a dungeon is to farm on. Even just by making the zeny difference per BBG 1-2m less than niff2 will already make it a good attractive.

Niff2 is getting more crowded, i remember before consistently theres 4-5 people farming there, now sometimes theres 8 people. As the server grows, the map will only get more and more frustrating to farm on with all the noks people there, so maybe by making mjol underground a good alternative can reduce that.

The only bad thing i can see from this though is that it might devalue some mvp cards because with more people able to farm BBs, more mvp cards can show up. But its not entirely bad either since if mvp cards are more accessible then we might get more people farming depths2 and make depths2 materials drop prices lol

Crosscy

CongaLyne

Ps I’m not asking for nerfs. You’re being too hasty. Mob info could be wrong is what I’m asking for checks of. Because I don’t see kRO players complaining about the map so it could be a possibly it’s overtuned. Yes, fix, no, sure let it be.

in any case the comment that “some dungeons are just worse” doesn’t make any sense in this server context. The best farms here are geffenia and nif2 and could be there by choice of the server custom features (Massive density for geffenia/not sure if nif2 has increased density). For the sake of server health any dungeon certainly can be made better IF muh wants it to be.

I vote yes for a slight mjolnir buff (regardless of me asking about if mob is wrongly tuned or not) because it has become rather stale locking players to only 2 maps for efficiency. Some variety of mob is nice to me. As to there being more BB drop, unless we suddenly have a huge influx of new players entering the server, every one increase in mjolnir is one less in nif. There will certainly be increase in BB, but it would only be due to less competition amongst farmers and therefore not be as large as you would imagine.

BuffNotNerf

Actually i redact my statement about there being more BBs in the market, i went to niff2 earlier with 8 people (according to statistics) with me being the 9th, and still got 27BBs. Then again, BB drop rate is small that RNG can make it vary a lot. I think because or the instant spawn of grotes, when 1 dies, another one instantly spawns making it viable even with 8+ players. Then again, i play EM so i just spam ground lingering aoes and tp out, making it look like im in 2 places at a time. For melee classes though, i imagine the more people the more they will struggle.

But for someone like me who has social anxiety, i prefer to grind on maps without people. I feel bad because most of the time i accidentally fire my aoes not noticing other people making me feel like a kill stealing bad person lol.

So making mjo maybe 1-2m less raw zeny than niff2 is still a welcome alternative for those who just want to avoid crowd

Pipo

There are several problems, fewer mobs, instant use of mobs skills, less zeny, less zelu, I'm there professionally farming timbers. All this needs to be corrected so that it becomes on par with niff2 and it was an affordable alternative

BuffNotNerf

Pipo thank you for your input. I never really paid attention to zelus during my 10bbg runs there as I see zelus as a bonus that my character needs since im not all +15 yet.

But for a maxed out char that sells zeluniums for funding for more BBs, then i can see how its also a big factor why niff2 is significantly better than its supposed alternative dungeon.

If thats the case, then it would take much more work for muh to balance it than I previously thought. I thought it was only zeny wise that made the dungeon so unappealing to farm as alternative.

I truly dont mind about the stronger / more annoying mobs there though, as I said, I only want mjolnir underground to be an alternative and not a replacement as it would defeat the whole point of fixing the overcrowding of niff2 if people would all move to mjolnir underground.

Thats why Im only suggesting it to be just a tad bit less rewarding compared to niff2. But at its current state, there is a significant margin separating both making it not worth it.

Pasu

In my opinion, there should be more options to balance with Nif2 for various classes rather than relying solely on places like Geffenia with Doping and several other classes being left out. Mjolnir is evidently a more challenging place to farm compared to Nif2, yet it receives less attention and interest. Even though it's an alternative to farming BB after Nif2, few opt for it, choosing instead easier Zeny farming spots like CTB, Thana11&12. I advocate for paying more attention to Mjolnir rather than excessively crowding Nif2. Frankly, I'm tired of KS with other players, feeling like it's something I'm forced to do when there are too many people on one map and I have no other feasible alternatives, at least not ones that are equally viable.

BuffNotNerf

I guess pipo is right. Im sorry, i thought this is an easy fix that bumping raw zeny would make it closer to niff2 efficiency. I just did few runs of both again, shadowdecons, zelus and zeny all yielded significantly lower in mjolnir than niff2. Only etel dust and bbs are roughly the same.

I dont want to super bump raw zeny gain to make up for zelus and shadowdecons though as it will further contribute to inflation, we have geffenia problem as it is, having 3 raw zeny maps would ruin the price for new players further. The prices of end game mats are already expensive for new players.

In order for it to be close to niff2, it needs buff in zelus and shadowdecons as well, maybe decrease droprates in shadowdecon and zelunium ores to balance out. Aside from raw zeny ofcourse.

Anyhow i dont think this is an urgent matter, as right now, niff2 is still fine (some days i see rampant KS warnings though) so maybe others can think of better ideas. Just worried that with server getting more popular, niff2 will eventually get into overcrowded territory and would not make a good experience grinding there.

This is for absolute end game though, as i consider mvp cards the final step to min maxing.

kaiakaito

Im bumping this up

I had some time to think for maybe something else, some other kind of solution. We learned that BB Drop rate is not better than Niff2 and every player will go there instead of Mjo Cave. Raw Zeny and drops are not good/trash tier as well.
So what could we do?

After thinking, I came to an conclusion. Most dungeons have "unique drops", like materials or weapon/gear of that content. While Niff2 has all the weapons and some headgears (like Sealed Chain), I saw that the only additional drop is Hard Ice (1001135) which is only needed for Good Evil Boots.

My suggestion:
Give Mjo Cave some additional drops for Dynite (Bcs Flush Weapon creation need those), upgrade stones (they drop Low Weapon Upgrade stones, why not more) and more rare drops for Safety/Flush Weapons.
That way people can decide to farm Mjo Cave to grab some extra Dynites while farming for some BB's and maybe a Flush Weapon they desire. If it dont drop, they can still craft/reform it with the current system. If they get weapons they dont need, they can still sell it (Muh need to add a sell price to Safety/Flush weapons to the NPC tho).

It gives a extra income, while not breaking BB drop rates and can be good for progression to some chars.
Reminder:
This is just a thought from me, it can be good or I forgot something what makes it terrible. Im here to find solutions, because Mjo Cave is more endgame orientet but offers nothing really except some BB's. It could be uset for progression for people who cant clear Biosphere or want Flush Weapon for their build.
Maybe it helps for a solution :=)

riverpebble

kaiakaito We learned that BB Drop rate is not better than Niff2

Not true; the drop rate is 1.21% from timbers instead of 1.07% from grotes. So about 13% better chance.

kaiakaito

riverpebble Even while the drop rate is little bit higher, no one goes there for BB. Niff is way better in term of
1. Monster Numbers
2. Overall Loot value

We see it, 3-6 people in Niff2 while 0-1 is in Mjo Cave.

But this post is about "buffing" Mjo Cave and not "Timbers have slighty better drop rate"

BuffNotNerf

riverpebble while it is on paper, its not the same in practice.

Blow for blow, if you just kill timbers and grotes for sure you would get more BBs.

But we are talking about the map as a whole. You get SIGNIFICANTLY more zelus, shadows, raw zeny on niff2, which in turn, you can convert to more BBs.

1.07 vs 1.21% are both low enough that by killing thousands of mobs per BBG, through the nature of RNG, both will yield you the same amount of BBs. So droprates are completely irrelevant in actuality.

For pure BB gain, 5runs of niff2 for me(around 2-4people in map), i get 28 32 35 22 and 19. 5 runs of mjolnir underground (only me in the map, but theres a time when i saw another person there but didnt see him again), i get 31 24 35 20 and 22. Just a small sample and is not really indicative of anything. But the droprate is very low that even if 17% more, doesnt actually amount to much.

Which is why people look at the map as a whole as a deciding factor. By selling everything to the npc, i get around 15-20m raw zeny on niff2, more shadowdecons and more zelus (which can be easily sold to get more BBs)

While in mjolnir, you get like 5m raw zeny and lesser zelus and shadowdecons on top of actually being more difficult to farm as mobs hurt more.

Im not even suggesting to buff mjolnir to be better than niff2. I dont mind it being a lesser alternative to niff2 if niff2 is crowded. But not with this discrepancy though.

A little more zelus shadowdecons drops + maybe raw zeny of 12-15m per bbg is enough to make it attractive as an alternative to niff2.

Right now its a waste of time farming in mjolnir as both niff2 and mjolnir serves the same purpose. Unless youre hunting for the card or mvp

kaiakaito

Moving it to rejected
Nowadays Mjo Cave is one for the most popular farm spots and with added loot, the overall zeny value got increased too.