Balancing for Mjoldun Underground Cave

Pasu

Hi Muh, first of all, thank you for the two updates two weeks ago for Mjoldun. Currently, it's much more enjoyable for me compared to over a month ago and also no less challenging than Nif2. It's the sweet spot for farming right now. However, I still find it unbalanced in terms of income (zeny) when considering the total of items earned and raw zeny.

I conducted a test to see how much difference there is over 2 hours compared to Nif2.

For more precise and clear details regarding the quantity, the drop rate of items I used for 4 turns is 19% (additional) , utilizing bubble gum and focus timbers while farming.

Turn 1

Turn 2

Turn 3

Turn 4

And based on the amount of money each item can be sold for as follows (I won't count items with a value of 0 zeny in the list below):

Pincher of Beetle (7202) -> 108z/each
Solid Husk (7190) -> 52z/each
Bug Leg (1042) -> 161z/each
Mole Claw(1018) -> 78z/each
Mole Whiskers (1017) -> 39z/each
Wood Chips (1001077) -> 800z/each
Cool Liquid (1001085) -> 730z/each
Fresh Pears (1001088) -> 820z/each
Zargon (912) -> 180z/each

And after 2 hours, I will have on average (30 minutes per turn):

Pincher of Beetle -> Average 405.5/turn -> 43,470z
Solid Husk -> Average 402.5/turn -> 20,930z
Bug Leg -> Average 366/turn -> 58,926z
Mole Claw -> Average 333.5/turn -> 26,013z
Mole Whiskers ->Average 337/turn -> 13,143z
Wood Chips -> Average 168.2/turn -> 134,560z
Cool Liquid -> Average 343.5/turn -> 250,755z
Fresh Pears -> Average 405.5/turn -> 332,510z
Zargon -> Average 254/turn -> 45,720z

The total zeny sold every 30 minutes based on the average obtained is 926,027z (for every 30 minutes over 2 hours -> x4 = 3,704,108z).

I won't count raw zeny because the mob density of Nif2 and Mjoldun is different. However, there's a significant difference in the quantity of Zelunium and Shadowdecon (Nif2 is about 50-60% higher , 90-120 zelu/shadowdecon per turn). But I still feel it's okay because the amount of BB obtained is relatively stable. The difference lies in the amount of zeny from the items sold, which is much lower compared to some other farming maps like CTB or Nif2. With 23~28 items per turn, I can sell them for about 2,852,000z ~ 3,472,000z every 30 minutes -> ~13,888,000z every 2 hours. This figure significantly increases when accumulated.

And this is where I feel Mjoldun is somewhat disadvantaged compared to Tier 1 zeny farming maps currently. The amount of BB obtained is also quite random depending on the turn and is relatively equivalent to Nif2 due to the density of monsters, but the difference may lie in the number of players KS-ing, which reduces the quantity obtained.

I hope Mjoldun will be balanced better in this aspect to truly make it an ideal farming spot without long-term discrepancies. As for a solution, I suggest increasing the amount of zeny dropped by monsters to a higher level, averaging around 2.5m~3m every 30 minutes.

riverpebble

(The following are my personal opinions and don't constitute an official statement from the GM team)

These maps aren't supposed to be where you go if you want zeny from sales. They serve niche purposes (bloody branch) and everything else is supposed to be a side benefit from how I see it. If Mjolnir cave is better in BB drops, it being lower zeny from NPCing trash is a trade-off.

Can you maybe include what the BB yields are?

Pasu

riverpebble

It doesn't have a specific number, even when farming at Nif2. Sometimes it's 15ea per turn, but sometimes it's more than 25 per turn. The issues you mentioned don't reflect the reality that Mjoldun yields more BB than Nif2, although the rates may differ, but insignificantly. On the contrary, the drop of Zelu/Shadowdecon has been significantly less. If Mjoldun is supposed to be solely for farming BB, it should ideally provide a better specific average number, but compared to what I've farmed here recently, it's quite erratic, and the variability of each farming session is relatively high. The rate only indicates the drop ratio; it doesn't imply that the quantity dropped is the same each time. That's why I mentioned the long-term scenario where the discrepancies gradually become significant. If BB is to be provided more, it should be reflected in each turn or the average quantity. Players would then have to choose between farming BB or foregoing Zelu/Shadowdecon and zeny. But to forego both and still receive a similar amount of BB, I don't think Mjoldun has any allure; it's merely the second choice when Nif2 is overcrowded. As I said, the number of BB per turn varies, so I think everyone should experience it firsthand and come up with the most accurate assessment based on what I've said. 0.14% is not a significant figure to create a difference between Grote and Timbers for players to accept the trade-off.

BuffNotNerf

riverpebble

While on stat sheet, timbers has higher chance of dropping BBs, the difference is so insignificant that you will barely notice the difference when killing thousands of them per BBG. This is why the tie breaker that makes niff2 significantly better than mjolnir are the side bonuses (zelus shadowdecons and raw zeny) as those can be converted to more BBs.

Even on a crowded niff2 ( 8 or more players) you still get more BBs on niff2 because of the side bonuses. 15-20m raw zeny on niff2 vs 5m raw zeny on mjol. Zelus and shadowdecons sell fast enough that the time it takes between vending them and actually selling them is irrelevant as it is basically instant zeny as well.

Unless youre farming for cards and mvp on mjolnir or you just dont mind being inefficient with the use of your playtime, theres no reason to farm on mjolnir vs niff2.

With how easy it is to reach end game gears plus add the fact that more and more people joining the server, MVP card hunting is the end game and with BB being the most efficient way to farm mvp cards, its just a matter of time before niff2 becomes an unpleasant grind.

I would say as of this time though, the most people i saw on niff2 is 11players + me, and the profit is still better than a 0 peron mjolnir underground. The BB yield is still decent and acceptable. But as more and more people join the server, more people will farm niff2 and will hit the spot that you wont get much BBs anymore.

MadMonkey

riverpebble These maps aren't supposed to be where you go if you want zeny from sales. They serve niche purposes (bloody branch) and everything else is supposed to be a side benefit from how I see it

That's the whole point I think.
There is no side benefits to this map.
So, even if BB's droprate is better in Mjo (it barely is), you'd just get way better overall loots farming Nif instead.
Talk about an "alternative".

kaiakaito

Someone made an suggestion topic about the state of Mjo Cave few days/weeks ago. I made a suggestion in it to add:
-Safety and Flush Weapon in to the additional Iteam Pool
-Add Dynite into the additional Iteam Pool
-Add a sell price for those weapon to the NPC

Many reasons why Niff2 is better is not only higher Zel/Shadowdecon rate but the iteams you get for the Npc. Normal drops and EQ Drop has good value to the Npc which is a nice extra income while farming BB, Zelunium, Shadowdecon (and Wicked Orbs).
And while Timbers have "higher BB drop rate", it feels more like there are more Grote then Timbers so its like the same in the end.
Offering Mjo Cave a extra niche or Iteam for a "goal" while farming BB should be a good solution.
You want Zelunium and Shadowdecon while farming BB's? Go Niff2
Want Flush Weapon and materials for that gear while getting BB's? Go Mjo Cave
And all things you dont need can be sell to the Npc for some quick cash.

But thats my hottake how to "buff" and make both viable.

aewuu

Having dynite is a good idea. Personally speaking, I enjoyed the recent updates to this map (map density). I do not enjoy my time in niff because it is too congested, and a lot of outright KS-ing.

Mjolnir Underground allows players who wants to farm bb in a more relaxed manner without having an issue or worry about blatant KS.

Stepbro

I am not 100% sure about this suggestion as my knowledge of the game's economy is subpar at best.

But maybe changing the drop rates of mjol dungeon:

Nerf ores drop rates to be as low as niff2

Buff zelus and shadowdecon drop rates to be same (or lower to offset the higher bb chance) so maybe .13% lower than niff2

Add an item to the mobs that has the same drop rate as the accessories and weapons of niff2 than can be sold for 124k each.

I think that would be enough for it to be an acceptable alternative end game grind location.

This will also help both the fully optimized niff2 farmers and the newcomers who can instead build optimized for mjol dun

kaiakaito

Stepbro
Thats kinda what I suggested.
But instead of nerfing/buffing the same loot, its better to add something different to Mjo Cave (like I said, Dynite/Safety Weap/Flush).
Mjo Cave should be a different option, not the same in blue

Stepbro

I still think zelus and shadowdecons should also be close to niff2 as they are part of what makes niff2 highly efficient.

Etel dust can remain the same as i think etel dust is already close enough to each other already

kaiakaito

Bumping this up bcs it need some Opinions and Muh to see and maybe decide