Add elemental armor scrolls on Muh Shop

Arc

+1 Omg, yes! I am an axe meister, with mado out of the question. I lost many defensive skills including shape shift and can't even wear shield. Pretty much a punching bag with pathetic damage. 🥲 The only place I think this should limit this is probably WOE or BG.

rozeluxe

+1
IIRC kro has these scrolls too, so why not?
And we already have GTB card anyway, its unfair for shieldless classes isnt it

hayatow

rozeluxe only holy and shadow armor scrolls afaik

MadMonkey

-1
This is exactly what those elemental armor cards are for.
Gimping your damage output a bit in the process is an acceptable trade-off.

rozeluxe we already have GTB card anyway, its unfair for shieldless classes isnt it

Not even remotely similar.
GTB isn't actually limited to anyone (provided you drop it and have an equip you can slot it in, as any other card).
Also we do have elemental armor cards, unlimited to any classes either.

Akin guyak is basically a geneticist cart boost for everyone

Nah.
Guyak are a separate movespeed buff that happens to have the same value.
Nothing to do with Cart Boost (possibly pre-dated it even).

All in all, nothing truly gamebreaking, but I'd rather the server be consistent.
Either they implement any existing self targeted buffs scrolls in, or none at all.

Akin

hayatow http://kafra.kr/#!/en/KRO/itemdetail/23374

hayatow

hm thats interesting. well thats up to muh to decide.

SpaceHelm

-1
i believe something buff that are not being able to be given to other characters through, shouldnt be exist as scroll.
it's the same reason why i believe Mystical Ampli scroll should not be implemented aswell .
Just let it be special to that character.

reasoning such as personal opinion that it is needed in certain situation or not, tbh arent really helping towards, why it should be implemented. since its not really applied to everyone .

Aspersio / Assumptio / Blessing etc , can be given by AB to other character , therefore the Scroll is available and i believe it is ok. (therefore i believe poison enchant scroll should be available too, but thats different suggestion)

Akin

SpaceHelm

i believe something buff that are not being able to be given to other characters through, shouldnt be exist as scroll.

Armor element isn't exclusively available as buffs.. The scrolls already existed in the database. Like someone mentioned above, guyak is basically a geneticist cart boost for everyone. Should we remove it? I wonder how many would cry if it was removed if we follow this logic.

reasoning such as personal opinion that it is needed in certain situation or not, tbh arent really helping towards, why it should be implemented. since its not really applied to everyone .

Do you know how 'personal opinion' is the foundation for all suggestions? Hence why suggestion thread like this on why something should or shouldn't be added exist. Like the poison enchant scroll you suggested, which literally doesn't exist btw. You and that one guy who opposes it have your own opinions on the matter. Also kinda hypocritical of you, when poison element scroll/extended enchant poison doesn't apply to magic classes or classes with poison ammunition. So it is not applicable for 'everyone' as you mentioned. When armor properties are beneficial to everyone, regardless of builds.

SpaceHelm

Akin

As i was saying, in MUHRO, most of the scroll on the shop is a buff that can be given by other character. So i would love to have that consistency.

And cards is different story. In MUH every card will always be released no matter how broken / usefull it is. U need to see the different.

U talk about how maximize power etc, do we have it in Muhro? Or just in kro?

Just because it is in dtabase kro / muh, doesnt mean it should alwaya be implemented.

Let me clear you up about the personal opinion. The good suggestion, should always think of the level of neccessary to other people aswell. Your reasoning that state u want rhe item to be implemented, just because it exist / just because u want it to have, doesnt have a strong ground gor suggestion to be implemented. Thats why i called it personal / or i guess its too subjective.

Its the same as if i suggest > "i want for every poring to drop 1 bsb everytime i kill it" , just because u think its nice for everyone, its really not necessary for me / everyone to have that.

And as MadMonket said, u mention hiding / Autoguard / cloaking etc can be obtained! Therefore i could say, u can also get the armor element from card too.. just incase u dong know

Pasana for fire / bathory for dark / evil druid for undead.. wwhy dont u use that instead? If u gonna cry that it lower ur damage output, then ita just better to directly asking my suggestion (1 poring kill = 1 bsb), that way u can be stronger and farm better. Rather than just asking a element scroll.

I havent checked about poison enchant scroll, since i believe it was exist in my previous server, and because i know, i still can get it With the help of alt character

Akin

Pardon me if this sounds rude or offensive to anyone but I have to put this out here. The reasoning of 'this buff/skill should be exclusive to such and such classes' is totally nonsensical to me.

From the beginning we have had hiding, cloaking, auto-guard, double attack, endure, attention concentrate, berserk, self-provoke, greed, among others accessible through other means be it by cards or consumables. Some of these have really good practical use or provide significant buffs. It isn't anything new.

Even maximize power and shield spell is available through equips, (maximixe power from amistr garment on kro if anyone is wondering) you just need to swap the equips to use them. Which makes it no different from consumables. You could say AA magic chaser can cast Mystical Amplification albeit in a more roundabout way. So I don't know how this reasoning comes about.

Akin

MadMonkey

Nothing to do with Cart Boost (possibly pre-dated it even).

Guyak Pudding was added on 2015, Cart Boost is a third job skill so it was added on episode 13-14 which some time during 2010 if I am not mistaken. They are not the same buff but they give the same exact effect. Similar to the armor scrolls don't give the exact buff from existing skills but one similar to it.

The rest of your arguments I have already address somewhere up there. I don't want to repeat myself.

Akin

SpaceHelm

If u gonna CRY that it lower ur damage output, then ita just better to directly asking my suggestion (1 poring kill = 1 bsb), that way u can be stronger and farm better. Rather than just asking a element scroll.

https://forum.muhro.eu/d/2839-additional-enchant-poison-duration-enable-poison-scroll

At least the rest gives sound reasoning when they disagree with the suggestion. I respect that, it drives the discussion forward. Like I said before it's up to the admin to add it or not. But to contradict yourself in your response, make up an unrelated analogy to the topic at hand and then get into an emotional outburst. I suspect you didn't even read through the rest of the discussion by looking the content of your reply. You don't even know what you ask in your suggestion even existed yet you suggested it. You just proved my previous point.

SpaceHelm

I love how u bring up another topic on the table like that 🙂

jinbou

Guyak Pudding was added on 2015, Cart Boost is a third job skill so it was added on episode 13-14 which some time during 2010 if I am not mistaken.

uhh speed potion is in the game for as long as I remember, since early prerenewal days, I don't think granting max movespeed was a concept that was introduced with card boost.

Pardon me if this sounds rude or offensive to anyone but I have to put this out here. The reasoning of 'this buff/skill should be exclusive to such and such classes' is totally nonsensical to me.

From the beginning we have had hiding, cloaking, auto-guard, double attack, endure, attention concentrate, berserk, self-provoke, greed, among others accessible through other means be it by cards or consumables. Some of these have really good practical use or provide significant buffs. It isn't anything new.

It may seem nonsensical to you, for me it is a requirement for having a well-designed game with classes that feel unique.

Cards/gears that grant skills in RO are always a trade-off, it comes with the cost of taking up a slot which makes the player weaker, and it usually only grants the lower level/weaker version of the skill anyway. They've never been a proper replacement, and it's not the same thing as just giving away the skills to all the classes for free.

For me, the more scrolls there are that grant class-specific buffs, the less unique each class feels. Some of it is kinda unavoidable, like blessing/agi and endow scrolls, since it'd be multi-client fiesta without them. To be honest I dislike the idea of poison enchant scroll/adrenaline rush scroll etc too. I didn't straight up oppose them because they can be obtained through multiclienting so it doesn't matter as much, but I believe the game would be better off without those scrolls too.

And scrolls for self-buffs that normally can't be cast on other characters are the worst offenders.

I had said something like "oh I guess meister should be pretty good at surviving depth2 thanks to shapeshift & defense machine" during a conversation on #merchant channel some time ago, that was the trigger that made me start building gears for that class. Few weeks ago some other people in #thief channel were theorycrafting about how SX might be able to one-shot depth2 thanks to potent venom/enchant poison since all the mobs are weak to poison. This is something I love, small situational abilities that occasionally make certain classes stand out from the rest for specific tasks. With every added scroll some of this uniqueness disappears from the game. It's not the biggest deal yeah, but its important enough for me that I'll forever be opposed to it.

Akin

jinbou Yeah, I can understand where you are coming from. It's just our stance is different in this matter. As for me, if it's available on kRO then it should be available here since from what I've seen this server is trying to be more kRO like from what I've seen. Unless it's considered imbalanced like MA scrolls post MA rework.

Also I knew about speed potions, but it's not dependable for traversing with it's 5 (?) seconds duration making it only useful for certain instances like WoE, etc. So both duration and effect wise the former 2 are more similar in my opinion. Let's agree to disagree.

farrize

jinbou
The current meta is geared towards offense more than defense which you yourself give example of in depth2 where non meta classes find it hard to survive them because they can't kill as fast as others.

Therefore I believe with the addition of the scroll, it would only help non-meta classes performs better in endgame because they need the armor slots (for damage or survival) more than meta classes do.

We don't want endgame spots to be filled with only EMs or DKs don't we? They don't need this scrolls to farm endgame spots while other classes might do. This would only help expand the meta and not pushing players to 1 or 2 classes that are top spots.

I'll agree to you that uniqueness is important to this game, I am tired of seeing the same classes over and over again in endgame spots, and this will help other classes bridge the gap and maybe we all can play our favorite class in endgame spots without forcing ourselves to play DK etc.

Classes are not equal, but why not help make them more equal with an item that exist on kRO? We didn't even need to invent new custom item to help offmeta classes survives better in endgame content. Please try to understand that this is also for uniqueness sake.

Because I personally don't want everyone to reset classes every updates ideally, And I'm sure we don't want MuhRO to turns into EMRO or DKRO. I hope in a private server every class can contributes and participates in endgame, not just meta classes. And this is how we start to help them bridge the gap.

jinbou

farrize

I get where you're coming from, but I'll once again disagree

Depth2 is the only map where some classes are having serious problems that are hard to solve with proper gearing. But this is a temporary situation caused by the patches not getting implemented in correct order (HoL should've been implemented before depth2, but it was postponed due to lack of data about some HoL mechanics). Once HoL arrives all classes will be able to insta-kill every mob again, including depth2 mobs. And it'll always stay that way after HoL, always a one-shot fiesta, "not being able to kill monsters fast enough" will never be a problem again. Implementing these converters to solve a temporary problem, when that problem will be fixed in the next content patch even without these converters, doesn't make sense to me.

We seem to agree on the importance of uniqueness of classes, and therefore the downside of such converters anyway, and those converters would be permanent if implemented unlike this meta problem.

Also I don't think the current situation is that grim anyways, it's not just EMs and DKs there, I've seen people use Inqui/AM/WH/Biolo/Meister/IG/SX to farm there without any trouble, EM/DK are just more common which is the nature of meta classes. Feels like Inqui is the best class for that map anyway. The other unmentioned classes seem to struggle too much there though, some of them borderline unplayable, I agree that's not a good thing and I want that to change as soon as possible too.

I hope in a private server every class can contributes and participates in endgame, not just meta classes. And this is how we start to help them bridge the gap.

As I mentioned before, adding elemental armor scrolls widens the gap between IG/Meister, which are already unpopular off-meta classes, and all the other classes, since they have built-in skills to change the element of their armors which will become irrelevant once these converters are implemented. Even if the intention is good, this doesn't feel like the right way to do it.

Same for the other scrolls btw, adding enchant poison scroll would widen the gap between the off-meta SX class and other classes.

farrize

jinbou
I'll appreciate your reasoning, and I see that we both want the same results that our offmeta builds can also compete in the endgame, we'll just disagree on how to achieve that results. I hope that HoL comes soon and helps us compete with meta classes so that I can farm my own runes to enchant my crowns.

But I will still stick to my point about this implementation. I do want change as soon as possible and not stuck sitting on the backline because expanded classes don't get extra transcendent hp and this is purely gravity's fault for making us squishy. Waiting for eventual meta changes just frustrates me more and more everyday.

I hope there will be a compromise and one way or another, So that we can reign alongside inquisitor and the like on the field of endgame contents, because if we're just stuck being weaker and helpless than meta classes all the time, then what's the difference between playing official and private servers? Thanks for understanding and hope you well.

rozeluxe

Once again, these items are available in kro for dirt cheap and never heard korean players complained about them
But lets see how muh will decide about this matter

Sora

-1, itll break the current pvp stage.

Akin

Sora Can easily set to remove the buff upon entering pvp map.

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