Twitch Spycam

Muh

Hi there,

would you see this differently if the chat wouldn't be visible in the stream?

In theory any player could join the towns and see the same, that's why we didn't "block" this from the start.

mikukitsune

Hi Muh!

Even if the chat is disabled - emojis and such would still be visible, and it can still disturb peoples' privacy.

Yes, in theory, people could hop in a random town and see the same - but in that sense they, in turn, could also see the player and potentially cut conversations. The exception here would POTENTIALLY be the thief classes, due to cloaking and such, but even then maya purple exists to catch them.

Save points are also requested so a group of people, be it guild, party or friends, can feel secure to talk publicly or at least have a sense of privacy/security.

Lastly, there's really no reason to watch people in who are in towns as they would usually just be relaxing and such. It would be more entertaining watching a group of people do instances together, or even for viewers to have an idea where to level certain characters, etc.

Muh

Emotes could be handled the same way as the chat - the script searches for "active" players, players in towns can be active, too e.g. chatting. But I'll look into filtering out towns / savespot maps.

SpaceHelm

mikukitsune There's a danger of doxxing in the off chance someone's having a discussion - there's also the fact people might be uncomfortable talking in general if they know there's a chance they're being spied on. Which should be the opposite experience of an MMO where we want to relax in peace, especially if it's in our hangout spot.

since someone said it, in my opinion regardings reasoning, everyone could also feel that they are being spied, no matter where they are / what they do. So im sure it doesnt limit only in base but also everywhere.

mikukitsune

SpaceHelm Yes, everyone could feel like they're being spied on - but having a spy cam enabled on a place to relax magnifies that possibility and I doubt anyone would like that. Removing the spy cam from save points can still make people feel it, but that feeling should lessen their anxiety/worries because they know that the spy cam isn't broadcasting everything live for people who aren't even in the same map as you.

boembchen why bring up RMT - if anything, considering that's illegal in this server, this would normally be the ones being whispered than being talked aloud in public chat.

Also, not sure if you saw my message above, there are some conversations where it just continues in public chat despite the change of tone of topic or even mentioned by accident.

Edit: My grammar sucked

boembchen

Wouldn’t change it.

Maybe next time we find someone who’s talking about Rmt?

I got nothing to hide. If I wanna talk private I use „whisper“.

If the gm shouldn’t know it - I don’t talk ingame and use other programs.

So I don’t see the problem here.

boembchen

mikukitsune

Im not into the code knowledge but I think even whispers are possible to read for gms.

Wouldn’t change anything after all.

And like the other said - use other tools for private stuff.

With the change to avoid the „boring“ town maps in general I’m fine. No one wants to see someone sitting around. But the reason is just different.

Change it because it’s boring, not because you are afraid of someone reading your text 😃

SpaceHelm

i mean back again to your first reason that people could feel that they are being "spied on", what if there are people that feels that way? regardless of where they are?

mikukitsune There's a danger of doxxing in the off chance someone's having a discussion - there's also the fact people might be uncomfortable talking in general if they know there's a chance they're being spied on

i mean, if you could ask it to be removed from "base / save spot", why other people cant ask the same, since its also making them uncomfortable. why stopping at "base or save spot". Like if the GM approve the suggestion for the reason of "respecting of peoples privacy" or atleast "making people not felt like being stalked" then let the player chose if they want to appear on the stream or not. just because why not?

please dont give additional reasoning as to catch people with botting , it has no relevance to the topic, the stream is made not for catching botting and stuff .

mikukitsune why bring up RMT

its the same as the other guy who said "we can catch rmt" kinda stuff .

mikukitsune In towns, I really doubt you'd always make a party just to converse - this is unless all of you just finished an instance together and relaxing afterwards.

and yes, there are some people who do that, just to gossip / talk shit that dont want to be heard to someone else. there are alot of people who does that.

jinbou

I don't think the privacy/doxxing part is that major of a problem, because—maybe I'm being harsh but—I believe everyone has a self-responsibility to be careful about what they say in public chatrooms online. Ingame public chat is no different than a public discord server: you never know who's listening, if you're talking with someone close enough that you may reveal too-private stuff, then you should be using the various private chat options provided ingame (or just talk through discord dms/discord guild servers), it's just a huge mistake doing it in public chats where you never know who might walk in and overhear you, even without the existence of this stream.

But regardless, I definitely want to see this suggestion implemented simply because watching people do nothing in towns is very boring, the stream would be so much more enjoyable if it only focused on the people farming by excluding people in towns & indoor locations like main building or inns etc.

mikukitsune

jinbou Yeah I get that point - just that the stream really just enhances the chances that someone would see it by complete bad timing. There are still some save points where there's barely any people going to, and was chosen that way as to have a private spot to hang out and talk.

Though yeah I do agree with what you said people should be self-responsible with regards to this, there are still players who just want to use public chat to vent/talk with others and sometimes accidental things can be said. And while it can't be certain that the spy cam would catch it on that exact same time, it adds more onto the chance of someone spotting it.

boembchen If you think that GMs can read whisper, why bring up the topic of RMT - it removes the point of even using it as an argument.

I also pointed out that yes, "boringness" and entertainment is one part of why I want this change - but the other effects of peering into peoples' (sometimes private) conversation are also non-negligible.

SpaceHelm

to be fair, if the suggestion get implemented so that people can get the sense of "safety",
rather than only in city / save spot. would be better if everyone have the rights to choose if they wanted to be appear on the twitch or not.
coz i would love to have the sense of "Safety" everywhere, not just in save spot where i dont want my conversation leaked on the stream. GM could make the system same as "Who's online", where people could decide that they want to hide their character.

tl;dr : either stream all active player or just let player decide if they want to feature on the twitch or not

mikukitsune

SpaceHelm one of the points I made from the original was this is a good way to catch botters. Opting out their characters being viewed would make sense if they were botting.

Furthermore, think about it, where would you more likely chat/divulge more information? In town where you're supposed to relax? Or while farming/grinding or instances?

Even if you're having a conversation while grinding/farming/instancing - these conversations are most likely held in guild and party chat due to the nature of fly wings and how instances generally work… also the fact you're pretty much in a party setting already.

In towns, I really doubt you'd always make a party just to converse - this is unless all of you just finished an instance together and relaxing afterwards.

Similarly, not everyone (or at least some of their characters) would be at the same guild. There is some mingling with other guilds in save points making public chat something people default into when just lounging around.

mikukitsune

SpaceHelm I already mentioned that it's fine people are feeling that - because we can't do anything if that how they feel, like how we can't help but fear stuff we don't know, we just need to make sure not to enhance the feeling.

I'd like to ask what would make you feel uncomfortable while farming/instancing? Unless you're doing something not allowed like bug exploit or botting? Compared to having personal discussions in town.

Custom save point, I believe, is one of the reasons people request for it. For privacy. Aesthetics aside, some groups of friends would just like to hangout in town not worrying about others walking into them. If we're bringing in this can of worms, might as well remove custom save point and all of us bond in prontera.

Catching people botting on stream is relevant - I'd want to ask why you think it's not? Don't compare it to RMT since it's hard to catch someone transacting without GM Logs since

I really doubt anyone doing RMT would do it out in public chat as I mentioned earlier
Dealing/trading between players is a regular occurrence so you can't determine if it's RMT or just two player beside each other/trading items

While other players or even viewers can catch people botting just by watching. I was one of the people who caught someone botting on stream so I don't see how it's an irrelevant issue.

Yes. There's a lot of people who do that. Also a lot of people who don't. Also people who can't be bothered to make a party because they'd think that the save spot they have is a safe space.

EvilLumi

I would leave things as they are. Privacy is already a function if you really feel you need it, and you have several choices. I had to teach someone about this, because she apparently couldn't understand that concept. Use the tools you are given, and if you desire not to, then own up to your beliefs and opinions. If you're a horrible person, perhaps you need to be vetted by the staff? otherwise, just be yourself. It's strange that Icey's helper is asking for privacy and is concerned about conversations lounging around.

You seem quite insecure as if you know you're going to say something wrong, or your friends might.

mikukitsune

EvilLumi Not really sure what me being Icey's helper has anything to do with this conversation. It's just a matter of having empathy towards others.

Sure you may be comfortable with having your conversations broadcasted but not everyone is.

I'll admit, this isn't entirely for selfless reasons. Because some of my friends are actually introverts, and aren't fully comfortable having our banters or chats be broadcasted for the wide audience.

I'm fully secure of what I type, and what I say. I already got caught cursing on stream and I didn't particularly care since it made fun banter material.

Frankly, you don't know me and I don't know you, the fact you're assuming things about my character and personality in a public forum meant for discussion, just because I posted a suggestion, is quite simply appalling

Edit: grammar mistakes

Muh

It's a living project and I appreciate any feedback. The main purpose of the stream is to serve another way of advertisement by displaying what's going on on the server.

Any sideeffect like finding bad actors, discovering new ideas and strategies are a nice plus.

I've filtered out a bunch of towns now from the switch-character-script so let's see how you feel about it now. Is it more interesting now?