Infinite Quivers Muh Shop

KaptainPickles

While I don't like the idea of infinite quivers, I find any class with "ammo" has this trouble. My gunslinger gets over cap in no time at all. Bullets are heavy, and their skills use 2x/3x more than ninja/archer classes, so I'm constantly having to keep 2x/3x more ammo out than I do with archer classes or ninja.

This said, I think reducing the weight or granting these "ammo classes" a higher starting capacity for ammo would be extremely nice. As it stands, you pretty much have to use gym passes on these classes just for ammo.

Muh

Looking at the wight of the boxes sounds like a good compromise, doesn't it?

myntsu

Muh So evaulating the total weight of them? That could be perfect.

If you feel like this could enable people to have too many quivers, then have a set limit of 15-20 quivers per element in the inventory, to avoid overdose, or simply have them carry less arrows (though annoying).

invaderlum

Muh Yeah, the weight of the boxes as well he ammo is a bit high… I can only speak for NW because we consume a lot of ammunition.

Also, different from what i'm seeing here… You can only swap you ammunition to the superior element if you confidential that you wont die from mobbing.
Since we dont have shields (equip) and not a whole cards reducing our damage received but increasing our elemental damage… We are kinda locked to the holy element boolets to have Platinum Alter and we use conversors to have superior elemental damage =D.

dabu13

-1

Kafra cards only weigh 1.
Having to manage weight/making sure you have an adequate amount seems pretty balanced considering you access to literally every element.
Plus, if it's done for one class, it should be done for all that require a catalyst/ammo for a skill.
Every npc sold aspd pot was made infinite so all classes have that advantage anyway.

KaptainPickles

dabu13

Why should ammo using classes be the only class that has to do this? And why should we have to open up kafra every 15 minutes to get more ammo? Again, no other class needs to do this.

myntsu

dabu13

I don't think pointing to Kafra should be a very feasible argument. It's an alternative to the problem, but not part of the desired solution, nor a consequence of the problem.
What other classes have access to almost all elements without suffering too much through their kits? Oh well, both Magician classes, and other classes can use scrolls that lasts for an eternity. So is it truly the balance aspect at play, or a hassle tied to the weigth?
I agree. If it's done for one, should be done for them all.
I don't see the validity of this argument. Berserk, Concentration, Awakening potions were integral part of builds to reach 181, 183, 187, 193 ASPD threshold, and was fully mitigated by the weight loss and inifinite re-usabilty. One could argue it falls into the same category as the ammunition "Was an integral part of inventory management".

The underlying problem is that inventory management and weight management is an structural part of the Ragnarok experience, but this comes at a cost, and when a class like Arch Mage can have simple the virtue of swapping elements while keeping the weight at minimum vs a Wind Hawk, in example, that struggles for a mechanic that shouldn't be hindering the farming potential experience, and it turns just into a hassle more than a virtue/uniqueness of the class.

dabu13

KaptainPickles because you get access to every single element as well as the ability to swap between them (without animation delay/cooldown no less) and still get max dps without having to decard? With the exception of SE (which doesnt have poison) what classes can do that?

JhxeChan

-1

WH main here, ammo weight should stay as gameplay, the quivers are already an integral part of management aswell as learning the different materials you can set as favorites in case of emergency crafting. For those who say why does ammo classes have to bear with inventory issues, I would like to point out that ammo classes are the only class that can change element on-demand, not counting SA who can change element also in-demand with drawback of having lesser DPS.

Edit: If that was the case, then Gemstones will be infinte, aswell as alcohol and other materials that needs weight and have access to, like DK runes, etc. Seems like wasted potential.

KaptainPickles

dabu13

Several of them. Wizard for example? Or a melee class that can switch elements with a single skill? Arrows weigh a lot. Not all arrows of every element can be out of quiver at all times. Much too heavy.

dabu13

KaptainPickles my point was If magic classes switch elements, they lose a considerable amount of DPS if they don't swap cards. WH don't.

SE is the only physical class (iirc) that has close to all elements and can switch elements which is why i included it earlier.

dabu13

myntsu I don't see the validity of this argument. Berserk, Concentration, Awakening potions were integral part of builds to reach 181, 183, 187, 193

This was in regard to you saying you would agree but beserk potions exist. You are using examples of things that WHs also have access to in order to support your argument of why WH should get infinity quivers. You have what other classes have plus you want more.

The scrolls and pots that people use are not class restricted. Again, if magic classes want to use a different element, they lose a significant amount of DPS due to cards applying damage to only element. In content where the mvp is a random element/changes, this is a pretty big advantage.

Taen

-1 most 4th job class requires certain consumables.

Soul Ascetic uses talisman, one spell uses 2 talisman and I get max spam at 183 aspd. Every buff uses 1 talisman, can you imagine farming at D1/D2 where every mob survives a minimum of two hits without MVP cards?

Btw my SA have 8k weight limit because I invested into strength and have increase weight capacity 10.

All classes benefit from infinite awakening and berserker potion.

Use Kafra bell, arrange your storage.

Planta

Personally looking at all of this conversation, I would like to highlight this:

Taen
Use Kafra bell, arrange your storage.

We have multiples storages and Kafra Cards are virtually free and infinite, so arrange your storages, fill them with arrows/bullets, if u want do some quivers and put them there.

I'm not a quiver user, I rather just use the arrows/bullets separately and I can't think a situation when you use an entire stack of ammunition (30.000 pcs) and I'm talking on a Night Watch perspective too, where i ended used 15000~20000 bullets in a hour. Vigilante ftw

Additionaly, the "new" element table changed on how ammo should be managed, I'm talking about when using the wrong arrow/bullet it was really punishing, so nowadays you basically go with at maximum 2 elements at least, and no 4 up to 5 for different elements, also the change on being on overweight changed from 50% to 70% and that really helped low STR jobs. (if u care about hp/sp regen% but i think it's more imporant about the overweight limit 90%).

Lastly, there's @restock to be more efficient on managing time from ammo restocking.

-1 for infinite quivers.
Quivers/Ammoboxes already have half of the weight of a stack on arrows, but if reducing their weight could really help a quiver user or anybody, then +1 for it.

dabu13

Raylane

If magic classes switch elements, they lose a considerable amount of DPS if they don't swap cards. SE is the only physical class that has close to all elements and can switch elements which is why i included it earlier.

kaiakaito

Moving it to rejected