Remove Instances Cooldown

dryst

This is not a good suggestion for the economy due to either hard limiting the output of materials (option 1 and 2), or just plainly break the economy (option 3).

I don't get what's not fair about the current system tbh, your reward from making more character is the ability to farm instance multiple times, which is fair, more efforts yields more rewards.

So technically you can farm limitless amount of any instance with enough characters and time.

While i get your frustrations on making tons of characters and changing gears just to farm instance, there are already alternative ways to farm some instances materials via instance coin.

-1 for this suggestion.

Eneru

Hey, thanks ya'll for discussing this topic!

Some points i believe were made:

- Mater account cooldown (1) IS a bad idea since it would limit way too much items AND playtime.
- Limit quantity of runs (2) IS NOT a bad idea, however, removing the cooldown per character would be harsh on people who already invested in leveling and unlocking instances on other characters for instance farm purposes.
- Removing the cooldown altogether (3) IS a bad idea (as myself stated in the first post) since it would flood the economy and lessen instances value.

Now i'll try to add to the discussion and ideas.
Maikoa Maybe a ticket like "Inventory Expansion" or such, to increase the amount of maximum runs?
dryst I get the point for option 1, but 2 would not limit the materials but instead increase it's available amount?
Akin But… right now we can run way more than 4 runs each day?

Also, the fact that you can farm limitless amount of instances is why i started this post.
I don't think having game accounts with 15 of the same character named "Eneru 1", "Eneru 2", etc. Is… good? Also, moving equipment around constantly can led to accidentally selling it to NPC (read many people on discord that this happenned to them).

Thanks again and keep commenting to enrich all points of view!

Akin

Was in a server which basically allowed 4 runs per character of the same instance… Kinda crashed the mvp card market. Just saying. Also people who made multiple characters spent time and zeny (episode tickets) to invest in farming those instances, would be unfair for them I guess. Not to mention this server has many commands that helps with storing and getting equips when changing characters, so it is much less of a hassle. So, not too inclined with this.

Sora

-1

Terrible idea for all of them.

Dovezin

with all that being said, now you have the answer for your first question xD

-1

dryst

Eneru if it's being limited to 15 runs like your suggestion, yes, it'll increase the amount. But it's also a bad thing due to flooding the market with more of said materials just like in (3), because you're eliminating the effort it takes to multiple farm those thing, but if the run limitation is too low it'll ended up suffocating the item generation too low just like what happened in (1).

In my opinion, organic limitation like in the case of needing to make multiple char is healthier than artificial limitation like in (1) and (2). and it's not like it's hard to make multiple character in this server anyways.

You can technically farm limitless amount of instances, but it takes effort and that is your reward for putting said effort into it.

As for the naming of characters issue, that's just depends on you tbh, just be creative about it and from what i gathered instance farming characters are usually put under a separate game account and never used for other purpose other than farming those instances so it doesn't really matter what their name is.

And for the npc selling gears case, those aren't even people who use multiple chars for instance farming most of the time, since you don't talk to npc to sell loot as an instance farmer, you just dump everything into storage with @storeall, as someone said before in this thread, there are commands to make gear change easier, especially if you put all those char under 1 game account.

MadMonkey

Eneru I 'm generally all about dunking on Gravity for their stupidity/greediness, etc…even when not necessarily deserved, but putting cooldowns on instances actually is a sensible game design decision.

None of the "solutions" you proposed fix anything.
You're literally just creating an issue where there is none.
If you don't wanna roll 30000 alts to farm instances ad nauseam, don't do it.
Everybody doesn't have to be a tryharder.

Maikoa I only see it being an option if it's locked behind a paywall

This would be absolute filth.
Massive red flag scummy move.

CongaLyne

Eneru It feels like the common consensus is that all three were a bad idea, including 2

Maikoa

yes… but like this item should be borderline p2w. not something people can just buy with 10-90m zeny

coffee

That would be amazing.. but the MUH won't accept that.. for sure

Josh

It could be changed to ,,15 times per day max per MasterAccount".

This mirrors what a lot players are currently doing anyways: Making 14 Slave Accounts and multiclient them on any instance they need. (If you need the Instasnce coins that is!)

If you got concerns about the MVP Card Economy: We, that do these runs, already got 15 copies of our Main Killer and can just run throught these instances 15 times (+ slaves, creating many many instance coins) and farm our desired MVP Cards this way.

So by getting rid of the ,,CD per Char" and change it to 15x per Day per Masteraccount, you would just make it easier for ,,us".

Maikoa

MadMonkey it is. I didn't say it wasn't. I only mentioned it because another server does it.

Sora

MadMonkey

I like this one, "you literally created an issue when there is none" lmao. let the tryhard play however they want OP, they're the one driving the economy in this server.

guezel

-1

Completely unnecessary and pointless in my opinion

jinbou

I think 1 & 3 would be bad, 2 sounds fine if it comes with restrictions/modifications.

In my opinion having to create & level 15+ of the exact same character, having to login/logout and equip/unequip gears constantly, and ending up using each character for only 2minutes per day on instances, can not be considered good gameplay. It is cumbersome, annoying, repetitive, not practical. I think just being able to do everything with your main character that you like instead of rotating between dozens of characters with ugly names like "Alt #13" would be much more fun.

With that said, the concerns that option 2 would make it too easy to farm instances, and flood the market with items/MVP cards is also correct. Currently the people who alt farm instances:

have to spend close to 50m per each alt on episode tickets.
have to spend time on leveling each alt. (you can get to lvl250+ in just an hour approximately, its not a big deal because of the absurd rates of this server. But its still not that easy when you consider repeating that 15+ times).

So it wouldn't be fair and it would cause inflation if people suddenly became able to skip these steps for free.

In my opinion, a fair solution is to provide an alternative to the people who want to stick to their main characters instead of having to switch between dozens of alts with ugly names. My suggestion would be:

Add a one-time-use ticket, similar to the inventory expansion ticket, to the cash shop
Make it so, each time you use this ticket on a character, that character becomes able to repeat daily instances 1 extra time, up to 15 times. Not the whole master account, only that character. So if a person wants to repeat an instance on the same character 15 times, they'd have to purchase & use this ticket 14 times.
The ticket shouldn't be cheap, I think somewhere around 20k~25k muh cash points would be an appropriate price. So it'd take 20-25 muh vouchers (approximately 150m-200m zeny) to use it once.

This way people have the option to either pay 50m on episode tickets and spend an hour on leeching their alts. Or spend 3x-4x that price, not bother with the process of leeching alts, and be freed from the annoyance of having to use dozens of alts, and switching gears between them constantly. I don't see how giving people an option like this could be bad.

Keep in mind that I already have 15+ alts that I use every day for instance farming, and I have already farmed dozens of mvp cards using those alts. This suggestion doesn't benefit me in any way personally. But I still think its a very good suggestion from gameplay improvement/QoL perspective.

guezel

jinbou En mi opinión, tener que crear un nivel 15+ exactamente del mismo personaje, tener que iniciar sesión/cerrar sesión y equipar/desequipar engranajes constantemente, y terminar usando cada personaje solo 2 minutos por día en instancias, no se puede considerar una buena jugabilidad. Es engorroso, molesto, repetitivo, poco práctico.

I'll explain your mistake, they don't have to do it.

If you don't want to, find it annoying or cumbersome, don't do it. I don't understand why you talk about this as if it were an obligation.

(I'm not talking about you in particular jinbou, I use translator and what should sound general, sounds like I'm targeting you.)

It's a possibility that players have, it's their decision, if they want to do an instance 15, 30, 90 times, let them do it, it's nobody's problem. Thanks to whoever said there: "you're creating a problem where there isn't one."

The playstyle of each player is nobody's business, I don't understand why they want to put restrictions on the number of times people do instances. The number of times you receive Instance Coins and green bags is already restricted, if they want to keep doing it beyond those 15 times for the loot of the instance, who cares, it's their problem.

guezel

jinbou In my opinion, a fair solution is to provide an alternative to the people who want to stick to their main characters instead of having to switch between dozens of alts with ugly names. My suggestion would be:

Add a one-time-use ticket, similar to the inventory expansion ticket, to the cash shop
Make it so, each time you use this ticket on a character, that character becomes able to repeat daily instances 1 extra time, up to 15 times. Not the whole master account, only that character. So if a person wants to repeat an instance on the same character 15 times, they'd have to purchase & use this ticket 14 times.
The ticket shouldn't be cheap, I think somewhere around 20k~25k muh cash points would be an appropriate price. So it'd take 20-25 muh vouchers (approximately 150m-200m zeny) to use it once.

This way people have the option to either pay 50m on episode tickets and spend an hour on leeching their alts. Or spend 3x-4x that price, not bother with the process of leeching alts, and be freed from the annoyance of having to use dozens of alts, and switching gears between them constantly. I don't see how giving people an option like this could be bad.

It doesn't make sense, nobody would pay this price or a lower one to be able to do the instance 1 more time, development time invested in something unnecessary.

players repeat instances because they are interested in the loot for themselves, to sell it or for a card, and the price of being able to repeat an instance already exists and is established: create another character.

and in all these comments I have made, I have not even touched on the subject of the economy. It is already garbage. Do they want to make it even more garbage?

jinbou

The playstyle of each player is nobody's business, I don't understand why they want to put restrictions on the number of times people do instances.

I agree?

I think you're misunderstanding my suggestion. I'm just proposing an alternative method to do the same thing. This is not supposed to completely replace the current method.

If people want to create alts to do instances, they can still do it.

It people want to farm the same instance 100 times per day, they can still do that too.

What I'm suggesting is just an alternative for people who want to do things differently. And it's not necessarily an easier one. I don't see why it's bothering the people who like the current playstyle, when it doesn't really hurt them in any way. Just let the people who dislike dealing with alts have a more expensive but more comfortable alternative.

guezel

jinbou I agree?

I think you're misunderstanding my suggestion.

Read what I put in parentheses. I write in 3rd person but the translator sometimes translates it in 2nd person, and it seems like I'm talking about you xD

Eneru

Thanks all for the discussion. Just want to add one more thing:

I started a topic, a suggestion, not a problem. Asked an honest question and provided what i thought could be some quality improvements on gameplay.

If the majority* wants to keep bothering on changing character every 2 minutes to farm instances because the investment has already been made, so be it.

Kindly appreciate comments that try to build upon or around the suggestion.

*Majority as majority in this post.

jinbou

guezel

It doesn't make sense, nobody would pay this price or a lower one to be able to do the instance 1 more time, development time invested in something unnecessary.

I disagree, it would definitely be worth it at this price, it's not expensive at all considering the benefits it provides. If I didn't already have dozens of alts I would definitely buy 14x of it the first day it was implemented. Hell, I might still buy some anyway.

Think of it like this: With the current method, we spend 50m on episode skip tickets. And we spend 1 hour or more leeching our alt character until it gets to lvl250. Time is money, we could use that 1 hour to farm more profitable maps and earn 150m+ zeny normally, but instead we have to leech our alts in low lvl maps and earn less than half of that.

When you look at it that way, making an instance-ready alt already costs us at least 120-130m with the current method anyway. Spending a tiny bit more for a nice QoL improvement is not a big deal at all.

and in all these comments I have made, I have not even touched on the subject of the economy. It is already garbage. Do they want to make it even more garbage?

I don't think it'd affect the economy negatively in any way, if implemented this way.