Forgoten Time Daily Quest Rewards

brozenwall

I did some quick math. You need 832 mats from those Daily quest so about 416 days to just make you Garment enchanted to the point of random enchants upgrades.

I know that everybody have a different time investment in the game. Right now I have extra time to put in.

Can we make the rewards from those Daily quest 2x or 3x? They take about 45mins to complete since the M monster are a bit low on spawn rate. Even investing 1.5 hours between 2 characters it will take 208 days so about 7 months just to reach the random upgrade options.

Also adding a conversion 3 to 1 will help too.

yami

brozenwall I realized this since the wiki is complete and I drew a conclusion that running all the glast heim instances is mandatory now if you want "decently-paced" progression on the garment, on top of doing forgotten time daily because the quantity from daily alone is way too few.

This is just straight up bad and lazy design from KRO in my opinion.

Daily reward increases is always a yes in my book so I support this suggestion.

jinbou

brozenwall I mean there's the vending machine conversion, you don't need to get all of it through daily quests. And the mats needed for conversion can be either farmed through instances, or bought from vends/instance coin exchanger/para etc… I didn't do the math myself but I doubt it'll take that long, we'll just need to pay up if we want to get it fast

brozenwall

Adding some extra math.

Adding just the 3 to 1 conversion will reduce the days from 416 to 312 so about 10 months.

3 to 1 conversion + 2x rewards = 156 days so a bit more than 5 months. Remember that this is just to the point of Random Upgrade on Slot 2 so you need to beat a 5 lvl RNG barrier.

3 to 1 conversion + 3x rewards = 104 days so 3.5 months. Very Reasonable pace.

brozenwall

Extra Math #2

Rewards 3x = 139 days. So a bit less than 5 months.

Yes there is a conversion tie to content that is not relevant. There will always be people that will rush and burn out themself to get all in 1 month.

I think it should be balance around people that play 1-2 hours per day 3-5 days a week.

Doing Forgotten Time Dailies 45 mins.
3-5 LoF 30 mins.
45 mins to other farms.

Even when just playing 5 days per week can take about 5 month. Remember its a game not a JOB.

jinbou

Yes there is a conversion tie to content that is not relevant. There will always be people that will rush and burn out themself to get all in 1 month.

huh, I don't understand why this conversion would be irrelevant or burn out anyone. You can just make the energy of fire/water/wind/earth mats for somewhere between 300k~500k ea, depending on where you buy the conversion mats from. Considering how much zeny/hour we can make in this server, that's honestly extremely cheap. why not use the system provided to us?

brozenwall

Another thing to consideration is Circulation of Life Accessories
The Token of Life Enchant needs 30 Grace of Spirit and the desired enchant for Slot 3 is 6.5%

If you fail to enchant it will need 15 day just to try to enchant again. If Rewards are 3x it will take just 5 days.

Yes using various chart to do Dailies will mitigate this. Even with doing dailies with 3 chars ( about 2 hours daily just doing Forgotten Time) it will take about 5 days just to re-try.

Choi

I mentioned this in another thread, but it's been a while since we've had new content, so I'd hate to see it become easier.

I don't think the main source of the energies and such is supposed to be the daily quests on this server. Instead, it should be the Attribute Exchange System:

Not sure how it is in KRO, but I actually quite like the attribute exchange system in context with this server and the patch that HoL came out with. This server has instance coins that allow you to buy most of the materials (except for Temporal Gemstone). Additionally, the HoL patch also came with antiquities for a lot of instances. Together with antiquities and Instance Coins, running different instances feels a lot more rewarding than it used to which is great. Temporal Gemstone seems to be the main gate, so I could definitely see these being added to the instance coin shop if we want the instance coin shop to be closely tied with HoL but not sure if that's actually a goal.

On the other hand, I could also see some type of bump here because I'm guessing on kro the daily quests are actually more on par with the attribute energy exchange since drop rates are lower there so things like the wraths or instance materials are harder to get. Kind of similar to my thoughts on https://forum.muhro.eu/d/3422-increase-rewards-for-172-18-and-19-for-side-quests

That being said, I'm personally okay with how it is now because I enjoy the fact that the HoL gear is hard to get and think the attribute energy exchange is fun and incentivizes running instances. Currently, I am just considering the dailies as a lil something extra rather than a main source of the energies. That being said, if we want the dailies to feel more rewarding, I could see a buff to the energies.

brozenwall

Choi As presented in my math, The goal is not make everything unrewarded. Those extra ways to get the items to progress will still be there. I see it from the point of view of someone who like RO and play limited time.

Even with dailies quest rates 3x and exchange 3 to 1, it will take about 4 months of progression. Just to hit the RNG wall that can stuck you for another 1-3 months. Also progression is tie to Weekly HoL and the level you beat it each week.

The real question here is "How much time it will take a casual player to reach that point the RNG Wall?"

As presented in my multiple calculation it can be from 4.5 months to 14 months.

With things how are now for a casual player it will take 14 months you invest extra time it will be reduce.

Choi

brozenwall Hmm but your calculation is only taking into account the daily quest as a means to obtain the Energies. However, as I mentioned, the Daily quest is not the only way to obtain them nor are they the best way. If we include that the players can use the Attribute energy Exchange, it should cut down the time significantly

EvilLumi

brozenwall Casual players seem to be ignored most of the time when referring to end-game content, because apparently, that's not considered for casual players, according to some in our community. This same thing happened in talonro, causing a lot of players to leave, because someone without the time investment just could not see the light at the end of the endless tunnel which was practically 6+ months. Stopping reasonable progress can outright just make people quit, and has. I'm not really sure why this craze is being pushed, and I don't quite understand anything at all lately, but thank you for considering what someone with a limited time investment could achieve, because those people are always offered excuses and not real solutions.

brozenwall

Choi Player will still be gated by LoF Drops
and HoL Mats.

I'm the no life player that will use all different avenues to get my gear ASAP. I'm thinking about the guy that is not like me.

I have about 16 months here. I have seen may people join and disappear, I have talk with many others and they take about 2 months to reach endgame. Then we gonna tell those people that they have 2 paths to get his final pieces of gear. Farm Slowly for 14 months or become a NO Life player like me.

Also if you point is that the best way to engage with a new content is not doing the new content (AKA doing old instance and buy mats) that is a WILD take.

Eneru

As a somewhat casual player myself i try to not stress over HoL. It's new enjoyable content so far, but yes, it seems a pretty too far away goal as of now.

Playing with only one char makes it harder too.

Josh

While I think the amount of time and commitment it takes to farm all the Mats from the Dungeon, LoF and HoL to get the max enchanted equipment from Garden of Time is a joke (A Joke that works for kRO cause they got thousands of players and you can literally buy the mats for cheap zeny at the vending market…) I also would like to drop this in here:

As up to Chapter1 (,,the new Episode 22 on kRO if you want to call it so) nothing better has been added to even kRO. So even now, with Chapter 1 on the horizon, you will not replace your Hall of lIfe Accessory nor your Hall of Life Garment anytime soon with new gears that are better than this 2 pieces.

Even if something better might come with Patch Chapter 1.5 or Chapter 2.0, we wont see it on MuhRO for like 2 Years I guess? (Expecting to see Episode 21 by the end of this year and Episode 1 somehwere around mid June 2026?). So we got time and we dont need to rush, as there is nothing else waiting for us after HoL BiS Gear.

However, I think most of our current player wont ever see BiS Enchanted gear here, cause many will quit long time before they get all the mats to success throught this rediculous RNG Wall (6% for right enchant on the acc, and after that up to 25% chances for upgrade….) or simple burn out trying.

PS: My main source of getting the Energy of Element is farming OGH Normal/Hard/Challenge/Fall of GH with the power of my 15 Biolo alt slaves daily 😃 - I dont care for the Dungeon Daily cause the time amount it takes to kill the (M) Monsters is … well.. a choice made). So make more Alts and enjoy the Progress ^_^

brozenwall

This is excellent. Here we have the 2 extremes.

Josh the MadLad with his 15 Biolos farming instances and will buy the mats in record time.
&
Eneru the GigaChad that plays 1 character very casually.

Josh doesn't eve care about the daily quest and he will still farm the content as fast as possible so should we punish Eneru with making him take 14 months just to reach the same content?

My proposal of "3x the rewards and a 3 to 1" exchange will not affect Josh at all but will aloud Eneru to participate in the content at a reasonable pace.

cruro

Currently my overall-thoughts are:

Having goals than cannot be reached easily is generally good thing to keep players engaged long-term (see HoL enchants)
Having progression RNG-gated generally feels frustrating as two players inputting the same amount of effort can receive very different outcomes (see LoF random spawn + not guaranteed drops)
Ideally progression should be logarhitmic, meaning that putting lots of effort brings good results, but going further beyond will have highly diminishing returns. This makes things reasonable for casual players, but still gives endgame players possibilities to work on something for a slight edge. Having a reasonable progression for more casual players also benefits endgame players, as they get more reliable party members for group content like the Rigel fight.

Unfortunately most endgame gears don't work like that at all. Many items are borderline worthless until grade A, where they start surpassing every other option by a mile. In the case of HoL we see some of the best enchants being put at the very end of the progression.
This causes a big gap between players that are 95% of the way there and those that are 100% finished with their enchants. This gap is IMO the biggest reason why it causes such an urge to rush this content and feel miserable in the process.

That being said, I'm really unsure what a good solution would look like. Changing the way item progression works would be a huge customization and may make us "incompatible" with future changes.

I mostly resonate with the 1:1 exchange, since it would basically "normalize" not getting the right boss to spawn (some may not see their prefered boss in 10 runs, others may get it multiple times in a row = frustrating), but I can't deny that it would make things easier again. Then again, LoF drops seem to be mostly used to initially create the garment and put lv1 enchants, so it would help with the start, but not really take away the grind that follows after that.

CongaLyne

cruro I completely agree with what you're saying here.

Logarithmic progress makes sense but for some reason Gravity's had this obsession recently with having gear be very end loaded for useful benefits.
Dim Glacier Mufflers, HoL enchants, Moan of Corruption, etc, there's a lot of items that are usually so-so until you max them out all the way.

It feels like you need to sprint to the very end for items to be useful which is unsatisfying for casual players since it demands more time than most are willing to commit while feeling like a letdown for hardcore players since due to the expectation that people will need to max equipment out; it has to be a lot easier to max out gear by design to make sure everyone can reach it.

I'm not going to get into the RNG progression gravity also seems addicted to lately since I feel confident nobody's going to defend it outside of the sake of being a devil's advocate, but a problem with this all being from KRO is the fact it's from KRO, the source server.

What are we meant to do? Deviate away from the official method of obtaining these gears to make it more satisfying for everyone involved?
Rework items to reward benefits in a logarithmic way?
I don't know if either of these would be popular ideas, especially the latter and if you aren't already setting the premise that your server does things differently from official; it's hard to think of an appropriate solution to the problem when official's the one causing problems.

brozenwall

This proposal is mostly a Help for the more casual players.

A player like me will mostly buy all the OGH Mats and craft 50.

hayatow

Bruh it feels like it's gonna take a year to get a good accessory enchant with all this grind. Any qol improvement to lessen the burden is appreciated.

brozenwall

Let me demonstrate how irrelevant the daily quest rewards are
As soon as you get your first enchant on the Garment to lvl 1.
You need exactly 162 mats (324 since 2 different mats) mats to get your enchant to lvl 10.

162 Mats means 81 days of doing daily quest.

324 x 6 x 90,000 = 174,960,000 Zeny
324 represent the the amount of Daily Rewards Mats needed.
6 is the sum of Coagulated Spell + Contaminated Magic
90,000 is the market value at the moment of Coagulated Spell and Coagulated Magic

In other words you can spend 175m vs do daily quest for 81 days.

Increasing the daily quest reward won't change anything when there is a better more efficient alternative.

dadalin212

brozenwall Increasing the daily quest reward won't change anything when there is a better more efficient alternative.

Then what's the point of of this suggestion? Reward players (casual or not) for not being smart in tackling the new content by taking the less efficient route when there are better alternatives?

With that said, I'm not opposed to the idea of increasing the reward or adjust the mob density for M-type monster related quests since at its current state it's simply too cumbersome and time-consuming and most players would opt to simply skip them (focusing on Serpen quests only). Though personally I'm speculating that we'll see some kind of adjustment regarding this matter in the upcoming maintenance.

Lastly, daily quests supplements your usual farm, not the other way around, using it as a metric to project progression and gauge difficulty makes little sense.