Tower of Trials Discussion

titano5209

Muh Yeah Muh, dont worry 😄. Take your time and thank you for the great work to keep up the server updated💪

crybabyhunter

-1

The shadow gears are “special” for a reason. Therefore not everyone can have them.

hoegenaamd

-1 from me,

Just my opinion but the forced long progression with significatly worthy prize, is the plateau where it might be good to put the veteran/ultra end game players in. Otherwise if there's boredom from having totally nothing more to do(e.g. close to or all mvp cards and all bis equips) or from being in the state of having minimum/no reason to socialize, these demographic might be less inclined to stick around in the server/community. I think 2h-4h per week (usually in the weekend) is fair and efficient to make them log in, be somehow progressing slowly, while they would organizing and socializing lightly in the weekdays for this "long term project". Also the demand for characters with specific damage type are great way for them to moneysink. I myself made a melee character for this purpose (originally my main is magic/range) and spend quite a fortune and time and effort, as it was for the greater good of everyone that runs and plan along with me. And I unexpectedly ended up really like playing with the class (SX). I'd say the potential rewards and the fun are worthy enough for old and veterans players to do these goofy things, that I'd would advice everyone to do it; to be somewhat newbie again and play and relearn again things, and fall in love again with a class.

Tldr I think to keep it like this, by slowing down and timegating ultra end game contents, is a balanced way to keep the community building and making the game somehow relevant. Afterall this is not a race towards a finish, but more about the journey itself. Just my 2 cents

P.s. I'd instantly agree for the proposed change(to somehow make this less time consuming etc) in the case there's newer bis items and end game contents, but for now, no. Currently too many supposedly end game stuff are too easily beaten either by solo or 2-3 other people instead of a full party, for example alice instance hard(could solo it with 2 chars) and i feel it kinda killed the fun and grind.

crybabyhunter

hoegenaamd This is actually very valid, and I'm sure most other end game veterans will aggree.

GM_Icecold

I also played this content, just for the golden eyes costume 😃 And it was fun, even it took us 4 hours of our life, we laught, we failed, we trolled 😃 and guess what somehow it remember me the old times in ET where partyplay was necessary. GOD I miss this old partys, and we had a similiar feeling in TOT. Give it a try guys. I know we are all old now and time limited, but give it a try first 🙂

Mysto

GM_Icecold

I also enjoy that kind of old-school party experience from time to time (as a special event), and I get what you mean about the nostalgia for ET, felt the same first time i did this challenge, also thanks and good job for all the people that make it possible.

But I think the key difference here is that in the first time ToT was released, you could choose to do it for fun or challenge, the rewards were optional or cosmetic (horizontal progression), also it was fresh and a novelty. With this second release, the problem is that now it’s tied to progression (special shadow gear), and that makes it feel mandatory if you don’t want to fall behind, even if the experience itself is fun for some that are already stablished players that plays with a strong core and have enough resources to overcome missing classes/jobs (i even include myself in this small group of players), it gets a different feeling for the rest of the player base.

It’s not about not wanting to play or not enjoying the content, it’s about how sustainable it is for the average player with limited time, limited contacts, or simply bad luck with party composition. I fully agree that it’s great content for groups who can commit, but I just believe there should be alternative ways not just through one long, exhausting instance.

Having fun is one thing, mandatory weekly runs for progression is another.

Akin

Make it to be actually possible to reach higher levels, the damage reduction scaling doesn't make sense. Cutting down the damage by 90% for each phase is way too much by gameplay design standpoint. Also the reward at higher levels doesn't reflect the difficulty spike at all

Most that replied have already tried ToT and dedicating more than 2+ hours for a non-stop intense instance run is just isn't feasible to most players even if it's fun as it's draining. I don't want to add too much but at least make the reward more worthwhile of the time spent and the higher floor difficulty adjusted to actually be possible. Especially be more generous with the rewards at higher floors (50+) for those who are willing to play for 4 straight hours to reach them.

Edit: Maybe something like cutting the damage dealt by half for each subsequent 10 floors would be better. You'd only deal about 0.2% damage (which is still impossible currently) for floor 90+ but at least there is better sense of progression every time you obtain better gear/cards or have better strategy and just generally get good at it. If it is deemed too easy someday (when something like 5th class drop) then just increase the reduction gradually from 50%.

zoraka

-1 If it's difficult to create PT quickly, create a clan/discord, recruit your friends/players and plan during the week just like I did with my friends, this instance really needs greater organization.

Good luck!!

titano5209

zoraka Keep in mind your experience with this game it's not the reality all the other players have.

Some players may have real life and it's harder to organize party with specific endgame ppl.

The content it's fine, just need less cooldown on reward so more players can make lower level partys, play it daily and slowly catch up.

This thinking of yours, in my personal opinion, it's way to selfish and you give for granted that every player have your schedule/free time.

Gears progression it's something everyone should have access to in a reasonable time. And If i undestand correctly the server vision, the content should be for all the playerbase and not only for you or people that can follow your schedule.

Obviosly more organized players will have it faster, but here we are asking for a little improvement for the playerbase that play with the time thay have.

Because thats a big part of the community and i think a little help to keep that part engaged it's good.

I never ask for a rethinking usually, only if i feel something may be too off like this time.

Hope ppl can think of this as less self oriented by "how much my private partys can profit" and more like "lets have fun togheder"

Because it's the same as HoL where we helped many low level players for free but many private partyes wanted zenys. And personally i don't like custom content to be like HoL or like old Nova MH.

I say this with the best respect for everyone opinion, my english may not be perfect.

Crosscy

Mysto i Would think that the coins being tradable could solve a lot of the issue. I think shadow gears is actually pretty appropriate as a reward since we have been awarded most of the cash shop related stuff through custom features in this server (shadows, bsb thru zelu, gambler seals etc). The difficulty of the curve definitely can be adjusted i think, but its new so giving it some leeway would be cool. The coins being tradable would let people who don't want to do this content be able to get those items thru the economy playing whatever else content they want too.

From muh's perspective i understand the items after coins being tradable is good enough, but it does require a lot of saving for each part so the entry of these items into the market is still very time-gated and the rewards unseen for month+ for normal players (those only going 25, 4-5coin, so 20 coin is 4~5week of not seeing anything until the document is traded). With that long of a lead time to each piece, people could be even less willing to let go, those parts are going to be very overpriced for a long time like that. I think letting those players trade the coins would be a better progression curve for the new players and keep the instance rewarding without long wait (regardless its a weekly or daily version).

Just my 2 cents.

Sagii

titano5209 are you the armored titan?

zoraka

titano5209

Ah friend, please, you just need to open one attendance in a Discord at the beginning of the week and go to the run at the weekend according to the players who signed up.
Don't come to me with that thing about 'not everyone has the same time as you.' I also have IRL stuff(like work, son, wife) you just need to organize yourself, and it works. Instead of spending 3 hours sending messages in LFG.
And I don’t organize everything by myself, I have my guildmates to help, you can have the same!

Sagii

Can we also adjust the number of mobs if the floor is set up to received only one damage type? This is to avoid idle time of those who cannot contribute clearing the floor.

Akin

Sagii

Can we also adjust the number of mobs if the floor is set up to received only one damage type? This is to avoid idle time of those who cannot contribute clearing the floor.

Sometimes when there's one type of damage floors popping up back to back and one of the DPS group is imbalanced, watching as that DPS group struggle and we just watch from sideline is both boring and honestly just a sad situation as the other DPS just idle for 10-20+ minutes

titano5209

Sagii Yes

titano5209

zoraka Given the arguments of the "-1's" that totally missed the first post reasons i'm really happy that Muh it's a good admin and will find the best way to improve this content.

To the guys that are teaching us how to organize party i suggest to read again the first suggestions that were about:
- changing cooldown reward to 1 day and not 1 week
- changing the dmg rotation mechanics
- (any other QoL Muh will like to add)

So, no request for less mob dmg, no request for less mats needed, no request for free gears, no request for easy dungeon.
Also please do not start answering to me personally because it have no point
If you have suggestions like the guys that have taken the time to write some it's good, otherwise it's just nonsense

yurizeta

zoraka

A bad argument. You say do not use the in-game feature to recruit people and instead use a third party app?? What?

Pugs do not work like that and the game should cater to pugs and not your ideal scenario.

Reeen

I agree with Mysto in a big part.

I am a fan of the idea and the production.

In my opinion it should be more rewarding to climb the really difficult stages.. 26++ / 50 ++. Make the time invest of 4 hrs more woth than a half part of the new shadow equip.

If we wanna change 1 mechanic of the Tower, I would suggest the dmg reduction...

Suggestion:

1-20: 0%; 20-40: 50%, 40-60: 90%; 60-80: 99%, 80-100: 99,9%

It is supposed to be very lategame. Every Party/player who is not able to run until lvl 25, should concentrate on full HoL Gear first.

With full 4 hours and a full party.. my expectation is, that something around lvl 70 is possible right now. In some months we could talk about how we can get close to lvl 90.

So.. as a small summary.

Very good CUSTOM CONTENT IDEA FOR LATEGAME.

2 Options to talk about:

Rewards (Maybe 2 Coins every 5 floors from lvl50)
DMG reduction split

Greets

Reeen

hoegenaamd

Reeen

For the rewards mechanisms I'd propose HoL model. 20 distributed challenge levels (so roughly every 5 floors) and the distribution is exactly proportional to HoL (assuming it to be in line with whatever math used by Gravity) circulation of life reward

1st= 15 = x1 base rewards

2nd= 23 = x1.53 base rewards

3rd= 32 = x2.13 base rewards

4rd= 42 = x2.8 base rewards

5th= 52 = x3.46 base rewards

Etc

So for example in the case 1st checkpoint (at floor 5) rewards 1 special instance coin, 5th checkpoint (at floor 25) rewards 3.46 special instance coin. Also probably will need to introduce special instance coin fragments item that can be combined onto whole instance coin.

At max checkpoint (346, of which means x23 base reward) you will get 23 instance coins but I don't think it will be viable for a couple years minimum. Realistically people will mostly able to reach midway at around 10th checkpoint (118, of which means x7.8 base rewards).

Also the damage reduction increase could also follow these checkpoints. Also that more checkpoints are better at more precisely rewards people of where is their standing in the bracket of power/relevant skills as a player.

Also since it is every 5 levels, I'd propose a minimum of one range, minimum of one melee, and minimum of one magic floor among those 5. This is in accordance with the suggestion to reduce mobs for these type of floors (damage restrictions floors). Otherwise unnecessary if the mob reduction change is not implemented

Muh

Akin I'm taking non repeating challenges and/or better distributed is a point that could be added as quick QoL

zoraka

for me
0-25 (25%)
26-50 (50%)
51-75 (90%)
76-100 (99%)

excludes 0% and 99.9%

hoegenaamd

titano5209

Cooldown to 1 day

I don't get this part you said you don't want increased rewards but you want it to be more frequent? Isn't that basically x7 the reward achieved if you do daily(might be lvl 25 rewards x7), while established ToT parties are punished by only having able to run once or twice max(assuming lvl 50 rewards x2) even though we are better organized and better prepared yet getting relatively lesser reward potential overall? How is that fair or do I frame this wrong?
Damage rotation mechanics

I don't get this part you say you are not requesting it to be easy yet you want it all level to be all damage types enabled? This damage restriction precisely is what makes those floors challenging (as I never recall a hard floor whenever everyone is able doing damage). I think if you do this it will be all magic or range all over again and noone will play melee. Not sure why you think diversity is bad. I think these are the few opportunities for melee players to be high demand (beside alice hard) and thus will have better negotiating position in recruitment etc and I personally think currently there's so few incentives in the server to play melee characters and I think that should change.

hoegenaamd

yurizeta hei I think that's unfair for you to say that. In the guild discord we put more efforts to get to know everyone's schedule or sleep and plan ahead for the week. And recruiting suitable people is not that easy; one wrong people and the group cohesive might collapses. Instead of semi afk-ing shouting with lfg for 3 hours on random day in a week hoping for the best I don't think that is the way. This is not alice/CT. Also that you might need to adapt and organize and be the better version of yourself to handle harder challenges.

« Previous Page Next Page »