Make all hairstyles avaliable to both genders

GM_Ado

iKat Most wigs are very on the high femme side and theres not many short options either, or even less options like the punk hair in the screenshot. Wigs def wont cover the same needs on top of being more effort in creating new costumes for us vs just adding options that are already there.

iKat

GM_Ado But most men's faces are very masculine, and most women's faces are feminine. What to do about it? Will there be female characters with male heads and male characters with female ones? Or do you want to redraw facial expressions?
Male and female faces in the game are easily distinguishable by their expressions (if I may say so). Female faces are softer. Male faces are rougher.

There is another argument against. There is a lot of work with existing costumes that have problems with positioning or something similar. There are also problems with some hairstyles. Taking on such a large task, checking, adapting...

yoarastrophe

iKat I personally don't see how any of this is a problem, or why anyone would have to "do" anything about it either. That's kind of the point of combining the categories, that we get more options to pick from, not just in terms of hairstyle but also the eyes and jaw that come with the hairstyle sprite. This variance in face shape already exists within the gendered hairstyle categories, and considering the graphical style of the game, I doubt the male hairstyles would stand out all that much in that regard. But if they did stand out, I think that's an opportunity, not an issue. More is more. People who don't like the face shapes could just refrain from using them. It's not like combining the categories would take any currently extant options away from anyone.

Implementation workload is of course always a consideration; it is up to the GMs to decide what's too much to ask and what isn't.

cruro

iKat

How can you even tell which face is male or female (whatever that even means) with the game's graphics?

I genuinely don't see the issue here.

If it's annoying/difficult to implement, that's surely a valid argument, but I don't see how it's an issue as a player (as long as the added hairstyles are appended at the end respectively)

iKat

yoarastrophe
I completely agree that diversity is a good thing. I also agree that everyone has the right to look how they want and represent themselves with any head and any facial expression.

Similarly, everyone also has the right to their own opinion. And people with differing opinions should be able to voice them without judgment, as well as opt out of certain things if they don't want to participate.

We have a successfully implemented feature for replacing profession sprites. By the way, it would be very interesting to know how many people actually use it.
I believe the hairstyle feature could be implemented in a similar way. So that those who don't want to see such sprites could disable them for themselves.

The main point of my opinion is this: we have a small team of GMs (Game Masters/Developers) and resources are very limited. Drawing/redrawing sprites and adapting them into the game is a complex and meticulous task. And there are many existing issues already with costumes, effects, and hairstyles. Also, new hats and effects are constantly appearing in the world of RO, looking forward to having them on our server soon.

And that's just the visual part; there are also many important requests affecting the gameplay of many players. And all of this is already on the forum.

iKat

cruro
Some faces truly are impossible to define. 🐱

In my reply to yoarastrophe, I described the problem as I see it. Please read it. 💗
Unfortunately, I struggle with phrasing things clearly, and standard translators distort my intended meaning. I've started using AI tools instead—hopefully this will help.

GM_Ado

Unifying hairstyles is far easier than job sprites and is already an option on client.
In fact some of the female hairs are male in other servers and vice-versa, currently.
Dont know where the notion that there needs redrawing came from. There's no conflict at all. It's literally pressing an option and then adjusting some small things on grf if even that.
The faces arent distinguishable as female or male in game as, like i said, many of the hairs are used differently in other servers or have a lot of the same ones already applied.
There's no issue with costumes as it's the same positioning, there's no adapting and if there was, it would be done by me anyway and doesnt affect my workload with other things at all if there was.

iKat

GM_Ado All the arguments in favor are excellent. I have nothing to object. But what about those who dislike this idea? Such opinions were voiced earlier, and I don’t see any proposals addressing them.

If none of my concerns are justified—great! It’s your decision. Those who like it will use this option; those who don’t—won’t.

As for the existing issues with alignment of current sprites and effects... I’ll report them when I can~ It would be wonderful, of course, if others did this too (since I know there are people who notice such things but for some reason never post on the forum).

xosofiya

iKat Hi! I think the answer to your question "But what about those who dislike this idea? Such opinions were voiced earlier, and I don’t see any proposals addressing them." is already in your post too "Those who like it will use this option; those who don’t—won’t.". I think this is a really great idea for more fashion options for people and those who just don't like using the current female hairstyles on male sprites (and vice versa) just won't use it.

EDIT: Maybe if it really is an issue for others to have male hairstyles on female sprites, there can be an option to toggle it off (similar to the class sprite cosmetic thing). But then, if we are worried about the workload of GMs, then it's actually gonna make things harder for them and more work for them instead of just ignoring the opposite gender's hairstyle.

iKat

xosofiya Hi! I agree. But it would be genuinely wonderful if someone besides me would voice and substantiate their position too—and propose their own ideas. And yes, the toggle idea is good. I can't say whether I'd use such an option myself, since I don't know if it would make me uncomfortable or not.

But IMHO, a disable feature is necessary because there should always be choice.

Yes, this creates extra work for GMs. But if GMs want to implement such features, there must be an option to disable them if you dislike it. Because the simplest way to ignore changes on a beloved server is to leave it—when it evolves in ways you dislike. Yet people will never say why they're leaving, to avoid unnecessary conflicts.

GM_Ado

Sounds like a weird extreme to talk about leaving the server cause of having more hair options, specially given we already have a few hairs considered female on the male set and vice versa.
We cant create an on/off button for every visual/aesthetic we implement, specially when only one person has opposed to it.

iKat

GM_Ado There’s this concept called the 'snowball effect.' MuhRO isn’t an official server, but it’s the closest of all to kRO. I know people who specifically chose this server for that reason, and not all visual changes are welcomed positively by them. I also know players who have already left the server because of this.

As I mentioned earlier, people don’t voice their thoughts when leaving—they avoid unnecessary conflicts. But I believe it’s right to speak my mind and also share the concerns of others I’m aware of (especially if they don’t post themselves for whatever reason).

And yes, you’re absolutely right: in this discussion, I stand alone on my side of the argument. That’s why I’m bowing out. 🐱 ❤️

altopoco

I think the idea of having all the hairstyle options available to both body types is a good one, one that'll open up some fun customization. It's definitely worth considering!

About the only addition I could think of would be if all the Doram heads were available to all Dorams, but I understand that they're held together by good intentions as is 💦

yoarastrophe

altopoco Personally, I could live with more than a few graphical imperfections and would happily just work around them if I got more Doram heads to work with : )

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