LoF "Guaranteed Set" should be once per master account

KaptainPickles

Title: Reduce the number of times an account can be awarded the "Guaranteed Set" for LoF to once per master account.

Description:
Per the patch notes here, it was believed that this was supposed to be a once per master account feature. It was quickly discovered that it was in fact, NOT a once per master account feature and was evidently a typo in the patch notes (I don't have the source here)? EVERY Character and every alt a player has has been able to acquire multiple full sets of materials for end game gear in no time flat.

Why is this a good idea?
The change to add a guaranteed full set per run was put in to make it easier to acquire mats for new players, to make it less "grindy" to acquire them, and to promote party play. However it has not promoted party play and instead it has promoted leeching. This update has made it so that some players are leeching other players and their alts to farm the materials at obscene rates. Which directly contributes to the fact that the change has already destroyed the market on endgame HoL materials, with things like Maple Sets dropping from 40~50m to 15m.

Reducing the guaranteed set to to once per master account, in my opinion, would resolve the issue of the mats not being easily obtainable enough (0~3 drops per char to 1 guaranteed set per master acct. + 0~3 drops per char), would not oversaturate the market with endgame materials, and still require a player to work to obtain these particular materials for end game gear.

What risks or downsides does it have?
In my opinion, none.

Additional Info:
I get that this was supposed to promote party play, but after being on all day I can say that it is not. It's promoting 2 minute "leech parties" where 1 or 2 people do everything. I get the intention of this change, and I get that people were dissatisfied with the previous LoF drop rates. I felt that pain too. When I read the patch notes I wasn't sure about the change as a whole and had my suggestions, but overall I was pretty okay with it. But today I realized it was 1 full set per character and that's an absolutely insane rate change.

Forgive me if that seemed a little ranty.. I tried not to be, but I'm no writer. People in global already know my stance on this, so I figured I'd be the one to bite the bullet and open up the suggestion. I'm sure this post will get heated based on #global an hour ago. I hope that we can all agree on a resolution peacefully.

hoegenaamd

KaptainPickles yea this is controversial topic I agree. Problem is that the last 2 months the price is trending back up (feb-march was trending down from like 100m a set down to 30m, march-may was kinda stagnating around 30m, while may-july the price was slowly trending up again 30m- up to 45m a set). Even as a fellow player that's somewhat economically competitive, I think that's a problem because:

1. it's getting harder for newer players to catch up. And while they theoritically can farm the LoF themselves with pre-HoL equipments, they are in a different position because they will find it harder to find someone to dump their equipments to (unlike us, say first wave(feb-march)/second wave(march-may) HoL equipments completer). This is, imo, an unnecessary risk for them.

The market for this stuff is small (sub 5b transactions daily) while being time gated. It means it is prone to speculation (buy all at 30m, resell at 45m). This would give a new player another disadvantage, that you will still have to potentially compete with old money that want to play around and with asymmetrical risk-reward (buy at 30m, hold and sell at 45m, if fail just resell it at 30m again). Also chances that newer player have to waste time just to find mats with agreeable prices by waiting it out or to find people that would sell below market vending price. On this 2nd point is also contained the fear fuels the price up e.g. "what if tomorrow's mats is pricier, therefore I must get it even if it is overpriced above 30m?"

Probably there's other reasons but I think these pretty much sums up the situations. Just my opinion but I think after may it would be more nice instead if the price are below the previous period, so that it gives chances for new players that are 3 to 6 months behind to catch up and be competitive (remember that for some instances running groups, some people (not gonna namedrop) are doing equipments checking and you can't get in without passing their sorting test), so making these HoL stuff cheaper will help more and more people passing these tests, or even potentially make them independent and free to make their own instances running group free from the grasp of the old powers.

Also rambling, but just my 2cents

coffee

As much as I enjoyed the latest update, was it really fair to the players who invested billions in a garment to finally reach the peak of the game’s endgame?

I was one of those players. I didn’t have the patience to farm and ended up buying most of the materials from other players, fueling the HOL market as it should be for endgame content.

Griztel

-1

Regardless of what people have invested in the past, this is a QoL update that helps people who don't have a meta class or who play support roles to acquire endgame equipment, either by joining a party with a carry or by teaming up, something they couldn't do before because it wasn't profitable. I understand that it hurts to lose zeny by doing this 4-minute instance 15 times and selling each material for 12m, but ultimately these are changes focused on the progression curve of a user who has reached the early endgame and is looking to start farming their gear. Complaining about a change like this when we're a custom server with QoL is a bit odd in my opinion. We weren't always endgame players, and I, at least, would have liked to have had this kind of balance so that I could collect my materials without having to deal with people who corner the market to raise prices.

KaptainPickles

Griztel

If expressing an an opinion is complaining.. sure.

AcidMembrane

Nah

This is one of the best changes they could have implemented. If it's not worth it to farm maple sets anymore, farm something else.

CongaLyne

I think some adjustment was reasonable but the change felt like a bit of an overadjustment, instead of 1-3 mats per run, you can now get up to 37-39 mats per run in a full party, 19-21 if you only have a group of 6.

I see the price of LoF mats crashing to 1m ea eventually (Maple & penguin prices are already dropped).

The economic impact is already done and I don't think there's much point in reverting it now, but something like 1 random extra drop per party member might've been a better in-between than increasing the effective drop rate by 3800%

LoF felt like the most fun part of the GoT instances to farm compared to CoGH & FoGH, so I'm sad to see the market crash like this.

KaptainPickles

Hmm, to start.. This isn't just about the market. Yes that's a factor. But this is just insane at the amount of material you are able to collect now at an insane rate.

It's no longer any effort at all to collect end game materials. Just hop in a party as a newbie, twiddle your thumbs and bam, in no time flat you'll have most of the bits you need. You just need to farm a bit of zeny on the side for some energies, which is already done in low level dungeons. What bothers me about this is that I, like many, invested a lot of time and effort into making my HoL gear. I did my LoF dailies, I hunted what I could, bought when the market was low. So now to see us allowing 10x or 20x of the same pieces that you could only reasonably acquire a few of in a day is insane.

If the server is honestly OK with this kind of rate/farmability, then I question when we became a high rate server? I joined this server because it was a low~mid rate server. I don't expect handouts, I don't expect cards every 10 minutes, and I don't expect taking 2 years to get to Lv275. But I do expect a reasonable amount of effort to getting where I want to go. If you want these kind of drop rates for end game gear mats, then you join a high rate server. In my opinion, these kind of rates are high rate server kind of rates.

Again, I understand there is an issue with people getting frustrated with how slow it was and how arbitrary it was to collect these materials under the original design. But going from 0~3drops per char to 3drops+0~3drops per char is a huge change. Once per master account would be plenty to adjust for a QoL change. Or making it 1~3 drops. Just, not 1 entire set per character.. it's just too much material going around.

dabu13

I think its only guilds who want to carry new members who benefit from this. Most endgame players who can solo it dont carry random new people, and if you look at the names of people with open chat asking for leech, a lot of them are players who should be doing the carrying (not calling anyone out, just stating the truth 🙁 )

You don't need the LoF mant to do endgame content here (I was using an unenchanted LoF mant for a long time without a problem - yes I farmed LoF without an enchanted mant and it was totally possible), and as far as price goes, having to invest 3B~4B to fully enchant a piece of equipment that is going to remain BiS isn't that unreasonable. And considering the amount of zenny you make while farming Z1 and OGH, its not like its an impossible feat.

As for people quitting because RNG doesnt go there way or the grind, perhaps a Korean MMO isnt for them?

Also, sidenote, maybe people should stop recommending SA as a starting farmer class, it does make it seem like u need the LoF mant to farm because SA is weak af without endgame gear… XD

I think reducing the conversion rate would have sufficed… coming from someone who didnt really make zeny from selling mats (just leftovers).

Griztel

"What bothers me about this is that I, like many, invested a lot of time and effort into making my HoL gear. I did my LoF dailies, I hunted what I could, bought when the market was low. So now to see us allowing 10x or 20x of the same pieces that you could only reasonably acquire a few of in a day is insane."

At least to me its ok, i already got my HoL gear and that allow me to access to content that i cant solo before, 6 months of that already pay the billions of invest. I cant see a prblem if someone else can get it easier after a couple months, anyways its my opinion and you guys are free to have a different one.

dabu13

Griztel I dont mind that people getting it easier, but what you said is exactly why I dislike this change.

"I already got my HoL gear and that allow me to access content that I couldnt solo.."

People join parties and do stuff together in those short few weeks or a month. Then, they're endgame and just solo everything or quit/go on hiatus because they're bored. Its also what made me hate being a GL here. People join, use the guild for carries and then once theyre geared, they are gone.

I cant really much else since i dont have a solution as I dont think there needed to be one. Grinding for gears and enchants is what makes RO to me.

Griztel

So you expect people play how you want? If you enjoy grinding and enchanting in a hard way its ok but not everyone wants that, if you mad cause people join to a group to get their own goals and then just leave or do solo stuff, i hope you can be resilient, cause thats part of be part of a guild, people come -> people stay -> people leave, maybe you want another experience of RO and its ok, but if people want to solo or not its not relevant to this, cause even if takes 1 , 3 , 6 or 12 months, people will reach the damage and do it (if thats what they want) and in the same way if they want to keep doing party content then they will do it. Imo this kind of changes help those ones that want to play off meta classes or support ones, because now they can party and feel rewarded, you get downsides? yes maket prices.

I honestly think the only ones affected by this change are those who sell mats like their main income, i can be wrong , but as i said before im against the idea of "I waste a lot to craft this , why people can get it easier" , because thats normal in this kind if games if you want to be part of the first wave of people who get their gear because you have FOMO then you will overpaid, in any case, as I said before, everyone has an opinion and I respect that, but that doesnt mean I cant disagree

dabu13

Griztel i'm not mad but you sound irked. Sorry if what i said bothered you. I am unsure why you react agressively, but you are correct. If people are fine with being used, it is up to them, but I certainly dont think thats what a guild should be.

I said it before but I didnt make zeny from selling mats, also i dont want others to play how i want to play, but RO is always about the grind, enchanting and making gear sets for different farming areas. I know we are a private server, but it isnt a super high rate so I dont think gears should be so easy to get.

Again sorry if i triggered you with something I said!

KaptainPickles

Griztel

I dont sell mats. I dont sell nearly anything except spare stones or costumes I get. I keep all my mats for my characters and build/grind out all my own gear. So no, it's not affecting "just people who sell mats like their main income" are the ones affected by this change. All my zeny comes from farming my daily dungeons and selling my spare costumes and stones.

And no, I do not expect people to play how I want. I expect people to play how a low/mid rate server works. Not a high rate server.

hoegenaamd

sure it's not about the market. But from its movement we could probably infer something though without certainty, let me elaborate:

1.Newer player should have lower buying power (and therefore should lower price)

More people that completed means more potential lof farmer of more powerful people (and therefore also should lower the price because more potential supply)
The price is actually going back up, and so there's wholly other factor playing here

For point 3 i won't say i know anything for certain but perhaps it's mats reseller/price gouger getting punished who knows. I'd say they deserves it for making other people's life hard. Also just let y'all know I already completed 3 garments so my potential loss of value is already a bit above average, and so we're all on this together. But yea also that ur right about the 3800% jump, but it's not like that they can't readjust it (they're flexible asf), let's see how the next patches playing out and keep giving us the good arguments here (i'd like to hear more from both sides).

telu

Agree with suggestion. 1 free set per day per master account is a good limit